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Old 11-24-2012, 11:20 PM   #21
ihartfood
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hey man, glad you're happy. HNSD!
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:09 AM   #22
tas38
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Interesting Musiciansfriend has different stats, I would probably believe Jensen though. From the horses mouth so to speak. Anyway, glad you're happy!
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:46 AM   #23
Blktiger0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm not really sure exactly how an amp works, but if I reduce the signal going to the power section, and then I turn up the master volume(which I'm assuming is the output from the power section), how am I not increasing the voltage to the power tubes?

And I know the FX loop is between the preamp and power amp, I already said that.


The Master Volume is before the Power section, not after it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:59 AM   #24
W4RP1G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The Master Volume is before the Power section, not after it.

Then what controls the power section?

Last edited by W4RP1G : 11-25-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:42 AM   #25
Blktiger0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Then what controls the power section?


What do you mean? The Master Volume does. It keeps you from feeding the same amount of signal into your Power section that you are getting from your Preamp section, letting you get high-gain at low volumes. Your Gain knob could just as easily be called "Preamp Volume" and your Master Volume "Power Section Volume". In fact, a lot of amps call them "Pregain" and "Post Gain" or something quite similar. You're basically controlling the amount of signal going into each section of your amp, whereas with Non-MV amps, your Preamp and Power Section were both being fed the same amount of signal. It's not like the tubes are running full-blast until you stick a volume after them to attenuate the signal. A simple pot wouldn't work after the Power section, which is why you don't see them installed on every amp to let you control the amount of Gain for each section of tubes. That's why they sell attenuators.

Last edited by Blktiger0 : 11-25-2012 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:17 AM   #26
Phil Starr
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It seems you have a lot of what you are aiming for so this post is probably too late.

When you double the number of speakers you get 3dB extra sensitivity, so if you use a 4x12 thats 6dB and your 96dB drivers are in a cab that is now 102 dB. Why not run into a cab with a single speaker. If you used a single JBL you'd retain the tone you like but at 3dB lower output. Using a single speaker will also improve the radiating pattern of the cab so you will hear yourself better and the audience will hear a better balance. It is win win.

Actually you are in a great position. If you are spending potentially $40 each on a 4x12 then you could spend $160 on a single boutique speaker and get a real quality unit that sounds great knowing it will be loud enough for your needs.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:56 AM   #27
jeffo46
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I think Eminences would be a much better bet. I recently installed a 10" Rajun Cajun in my Fender Frontman 25R combo and the difference in both sound and volume is amazing. The amp now, can play at high volumes without breaking up and the clarity especially on the mids and treble, is astonishing. The Gain now sounds like something that you can use for Blues and Classic Rock without that muddiness. The difference in volume is also quite noticeable as well.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
When you double the number of speakers you get 3dB extra sensitivity


Crap! Is this really true? I never heard/knew this.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by woad_yurt
Crap! Is this really true? I never heard/knew this.

yes it is true.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:55 PM   #30
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Wow. I can get even more with only one speaker....

Still, I started out at w/ 2 at 102 db sensitivity and now have 2 at 96-97 so there's a big difference. If I had one really inefficient, say, 100 watt 8 ohm 12, I may be able to drop the tube preamp from the mix & use only the amp.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:34 PM   #31
Phil Starr
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The pre amp won't make the ultimate volume any greater, it will increase your gain and give you a greater range of tones.

If you have the output on your guitar right up then even without your pre amp if you gradually turn up your volume and gain on the amp then it will reach a stage where turning up louder won't change the volume any more, though it may give you more overdrive tone. if you have a 50W amp then it will only give 50W whatever you drive it with and whatever setting you have on your controls, hence the 'this one goes to 11'.

Since you can easily achieve the volume you need just decide on the sensitivity that suits you best then listen to speakers that match that and choose the one with the best tone. Eminence and Celestion have tone clips on their web sites.


Last edited by Phil Starr : 11-26-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #32
W4RP1G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
What do you mean? The Master Volume does. It keeps you from feeding the same amount of signal into your Power section that you are getting from your Preamp section, letting you get high-gain at low volumes. Your Gain knob could just as easily be called "Preamp Volume" and your Master Volume "Power Section Volume". In fact, a lot of amps call them "Pregain" and "Post Gain" or something quite similar. You're basically controlling the amount of signal going into each section of your amp, whereas with Non-MV amps, your Preamp and Power Section were both being fed the same amount of signal. It's not like the tubes are running full-blast until you stick a volume after them to attenuate the signal. A simple pot wouldn't work after the Power section, which is why you don't see them installed on every amp to let you control the amount of Gain for each section of tubes. That's why they sell attenuators.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I think I have some research to do so I fully understand how amps operate.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I think I have some research to do so I fully understand how amps operate.



Look in the owners manual of amps for the block diagram. It will help you understand how an amp is set up. Not all owners manual have that. Its great for a quick glance to see how the overall layout of the amp is. Any further and you need a schematic.




And you can compare that to a snippet of the schematic on this page...

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...oo+for+us+cheap
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