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Old 12-09-2012, 03:25 PM   #1
.30over
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Please explain this phenomenon..

I am currently running a Schecter Omen Extreme LH 5 string with active Schecter diamond series pickups and electronics thru an Acoustic B200h head with the 4x10 and 1x15 cabs...as well as a Bass Driver set to acoustic with enough blend thrown in to get the warmth.

Bought this bass a year ago and practice at home with it on my 10 watt acoustic practice amp while the stack sits at the drummers house for practice on saturdays or whenever else we get together. On my practice amp it sounds just fine with the controls set to even and the amp set to even with a slight mid cut. But I have spent the last year of saturdays trying to get the same sound out of the big set and have produced more mud then one should be able to. Ran my cords so I could stand away from the band last night and heard yet another song with the bass pretty much absent yet punching on only the low notes. Got pissed walked over turned all 6 EQ knobs on the amp head to lowest setting walked back for next song and listened to a better sound than I have gotten on this bass at any other time. Warmth was there, every note was clear, deepened the tone considerably. Is there some aspect of active electronics or Acoustic brand amps that I haven't calculated?

I have a feeling I know why this happened but Im looking for a few thoughts before I go down the wrong train of thought.

Any input is appreciated.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:34 PM   #2
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Well normally "house brand" actives are pretty mediocre at best (on lower priced models).

But It may very well be that you just aren't a fan of that amp. Have you tried boosting the mids a little and backing off the bass a touch? You also may be clipping the amp which will make your sound muddy. 200 watts pushing a 4x10 and a 1x15 is not going to get loud with out distorting.

You may want to look into something like a used GK RB400 head, or a Hartke 3500/5500.

If your really on a budget, The GK Backline 600 is <$200 used on guitarcenter's used site. It is the RB pre-amp with a diffrent power amp (to make it cheaper). I know a bassest that has used the Backline 300 for years and it sounds good.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #3
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If I understand what you are getting at, you are trying to duplicate the tone you get out of your practice amp in your big rig? Larger speakers will more more air and thus change what is being reproduced. The more low end stuff happens in the bigger speakers where the little ones really don't.

The distance you are from your amp has a bit to do with it as well. Low end waves take space to form... far more than high end stuff. You have a few factors that are changing your tone there my friend. I personally suggest that you stand as far from your amp as you can. That's the only way that you'll get an accurate image of what your amp is producing. I do mean the ONLY way.

I suggest getting rid of everything but your bass. If you can't get close enough to the tone you want with just it unplugged, it's time to change something (strings, the bass itself, the bridge or nut). Amplifying something you DON"T like is just gonna give you more of what you don't want.

Then add your amp. Set all the controls flat. Listen to one speaker at a time. 15's are tubby to me... might be an 18's tone you are looking for. Are either of the enclosures doing what you want? When you put the 2 together, what happens? Got something good? Don't add any effects until you have something you like. You aren't (I hope) trying to cover up your tone, you are trying to enhance it.

Also, I assume that you have full range signal going to both speaker enclosures? That's probably not helping your situation either.

One tiny playing tip: don't play too hard. you'll just rob yourself of tone that way too.

That's my $.02 Good luck man
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #4
.30over
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Upto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Well normally "house brand" actives are pretty mediocre at best (on lower priced models).

But It may very well be that you just aren't a fan of that amp. Have you tried boosting the mids a little and backing off the bass a touch? You also may be clipping the amp which will make your sound muddy. 200 watts pushing a 4x10 and a 1x15 is not going to get loud with out distorting.

You may want to look into something like a used GK RB400 head, or a Hartke 3500/5500.

If your really on a budget, The GK Backline 600 is <$200 used on guitarcenter's used site. It is the RB pre-amp with a diffrent power amp (to make it cheaper). I know a bassest that has used the Backline 300 for years and it sounds good.


Have had reservations about these pickups and the electronics for a bit now....1 main volume, 1 n/pickup volume, 1, b/pickup volume, 1 blend.....no actual tone pot

considering having full Bartolini pickups and electronics installed. The amp holds up pretty well and only clips at extreme levels which I never go to anyways. I usually only use the 4x10 in fact. But I do have the 1x15 for backup if needed.

I do like the sound of the Hartke. But that one might have to wait awhile. (specifically when my wife isnt paying attention

Last edited by .30over : 12-09-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #5
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Ps. Barts are nice but can be difficult to get. The might not be anymore though. I love my Demeter preamp. Basslines are perdy good pick ups too
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddhm
Ps. Barts are nice but can be difficult to get. The might not be anymore though. I love my Demeter preamp. Basslines are perdy good pick ups too


Seen the Basslines and was gonna look into those a bit...but never really heard em.

And I might end up getting a new amp sooner than later .... didn't realize that the Hartke was only 400. got about a 1000 to spend and have to get a few things....that amp head alone would surely change my tone.

And yes I dont over use the Bass driver. I basically just add a bit of the blend to add some of the warmth that my amp head doesnt have.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #7
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Go for the Hartke 3500 or 5500 they are much better and have tube or SS preamps or a blend of them. The 2500 doen not have any tubes, just tube emulation circuts.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Go for the Hartke 3500 or 5500 they are much better and have tube or SS preamps or a blend of them. The 2500 doen not have any tubes, just tube emulation circuts.


The GC specs on those say 350 watts or 500 watts....not even getting into all the other important specs....are those numbers total or per channel?
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:48 PM   #9
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total watts not per channel.

Check the used section on GC they have a few 3500's for $199 or less. GC has a great return policy I buy used from them quite a bit lately.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
total watts not per channel.

Check the used section on GC they have a few 3500's for $199 or less. GC has a great return policy I buy used from them quite a bit lately.


love the avatar
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #11
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If you are thinking about a new amp, I really really suggest Markbass stuff. A friend brought one over that had a single 8 or 10 in it and it blew me away! I've been told that the big ones are just as nice.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:03 PM   #12
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I personally dislike the Hartke stuff. They seem to fib a bit about what they really do as far as wattage and such. Gk is cool because it's consistent and reliable. The GK 800 RB is the most widely used (and rented) bass amp on the planet.

I suppose it really matters what tone you are going for. Is it an SVT or a GK? Those are really the starting points imho. I mean, SWR, EDEN and Markbass are pretty well improved GKs and one could compare any bass tube amp to an SVT.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #13
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I dont particularly like buying used stuff...its a peeve of mine to watch people buy stuff used cause its a deal then spend months screwing around with questionable jacks or channels that are messed up somehow....than spend enough to fix them that they could've just saved for a bit bought it new and saved time and hassle. Although will check into GC return policy on used stuff....might be workable.

Have heard that certain SVT's are awesome and some are junk.....but as with everything you cant believe everything you hear about everything. The one I heard first hand a few years ago was awesome. Not sure which it was though. And I have no real experience with Mark-bass or GK stuff.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddhm
The distance you are from your amp has a bit to do with it as well. Low end waves take space to form... far more than high end stuff. You have a few factors that are changing your tone there my friend. I personally suggest that you stand as far from your amp as you can. That's the only way that you'll get an accurate image of what your amp is producing. I do mean the ONLY way.


That's BS. There seems to be this idea that you have to be standing a wavelength distance away from the source of a sound wave to hear it. Well, it's simply not true. If you wanted to hear a frequency of 60 Hz for example, you would have to be standing at the other side of the stage in order to hear it. By that logic, when I'm sitting 18 inches away from my computer speakers, I wouldn't be able to hear anything much below 800 Hz. Clearly that can't be the case, since I can hear sounds down to 45 Hz.
All sound waves are is just disturbances in the air. As long as the air in your ears is disturbed, you will hear the sound. The reason the sound of your bass amp changes as you move away from it is because of interference between the sound waves of each of the speakers. Whilst standing at the edge of the stage might give you a better idea of what the audience is hearing, it won't make the sound of your bass amp any more clear or defined.
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Last edited by eddiehimself : 12-09-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .30over
Have had reservations about these pickups and the electronics for a bit now....1 main volume, 1 n/pickup volume, 1, b/pickup volume, 1 blend.....no actual tone pot

Not to sound harsh, but if you're having issues with your tone, you should probably have an idea as to what the controls on your bass actually do. Your pickups are most likely passive. Your bass has a master volume and a blend for panning between pickups. The other two are a 2-band eq that should allow you to boost or cut your bass and treble (one knob for bass, one for treble).

If you're looking to get a new amp and have $1000 to spend you should really make a trip to a store and start trying things out. Markbass, Genz Benz, Eden, Aguilar, TC Electronic, Hartke, EBS, and SWR all have offerings you might want to look at.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #16
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I'm sorry Eddie, you are only partially correct. You do hear it but you don't hear it accurately.
It would also be my opinion that what the audience hears is more important than what you hear.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:29 PM   #17
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Ps. If what you are saying was true, a single speaker (like a 1x 18) would not have that problem.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #18
.30over
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tostitos
Not to sound harsh, but if you're having issues with your tone, you should probably have an idea as to what the controls on your bass actually do. Your pickups are most likely passive. Your bass has a master volume and a blend for panning between pickups. The other two are a 2-band eq that should allow you to boost or cut your bass and treble (one knob for bass, one for treble).

If you're looking to get a new amp and have $1000 to spend you should really make a trip to a store and start trying things out. Markbass, Genz Benz, Eden, Aguilar, TC Electronic, Hartke, EBS, and SWR all have offerings you might want to look at.


I called those knobs volume knobs because that is how they are defined on the paper that came with the bass....the site uses 2 band eq, some sites use volume it depends......either way it still leads to no real mid control without screwing with the lows and highs. So at the very least im looking into different electronics and a better bass head. Then I can keep the Acoustic for a backup.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .30over
I dont particularly like buying used stuff...its a peeve of mine to watch people buy stuff used cause its a deal then spend months screwing around with questionable jacks or channels that are messed up somehow....than spend enough to fix them that they could've just saved for a bit bought it new and saved time and hassle. Although will check into GC return policy on used stuff....might be workable.

Have heard that certain SVT's are awesome and some are junk.....but as with everything you cant believe everything you hear about everything. The one I heard first hand a few years ago was awesome. Not sure which it was though. And I have no real experience with Mark-bass or GK stuff.

Well I play in 2 bands in one the bassest has a MM Stingray running through a GK RB400II 2x10 combo and a 1x15 extension cab. It sounds great nice and punchy (we play Hardcore/Punk)

The other bassest plays a tregain Shaman bass through a Ampeg SVT3Pro and an Ampeg 8x10 classic. Sounds huge.

If you get something faulty they will either give your moneyback + S/H. And they have a 30 day return policy so if in those 30 days you don't like what you bought you can take it to your nearest GC or send it back via mail.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ddhm
I'm sorry Eddie, you are only partially correct. You do hear it but you don't hear it accurately.
It would also be my opinion that what the audience hears is more important than what you hear.


There's no partially correct about it. You either hear a sound wave, or you don't. Accuracy doesn't come into it. To be honest, I think the sound would end up being made worse by standing far away from it in most rooms because of the added influence of the reflections from the rest of the room.
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