Spaztikko

I got some beef with modes.

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Hail

do you guys remember liam

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mdc

...

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Sweet

Spaztikko

Who doesn't remember steve vai?

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Hydra150

He should be back around Jan/February.

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Nervouspace

Ok woah woah hold on just a minute. Before you all junk up my thread with youtube food and throw it in the trash can. I read up alot of stuff on modes tonight.


How can you tell me this isn't a modal progression?

Am, C, G, F

If I played A Dorian then switched to A Phrygian?

Hail

you can't just 'switch' modes, just like you can't just change from a strong sense of tonal center that we're used to back into the weak, simple, obsolete harmonic structure of modal music. you're mixing up accidentals and scale shapes for something that has nothing to do with either of them outside of "become a badass guitarist in 3 days"-style books and websites.

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rockingamer2

That is in A minor. Any note you play will be in the key of A minor. You can used accidentals like a major 6th to get a "flavor" of Dorian, or a Bb to get a "flavor" of Phrygian, but you are by no means playing with modes. Your chord progression doesn't allow it.

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Nervouspace

Oh I think I am starting to understand, so it is entirely up to my chord progression? Not exactly the key and DEFINANTLY not the shapes w/accidentals I thought made up modal playing earlier...

primusfan

basically anything with a b3. for that reason i'd say the most important thing is gravitate towards the chord tones. everything else is just a matter of flavor and gravitational pull. the root is your meat, the third is the potatoes. the fifth is like okay cornbread. you can take it or leave it. meh. the seventh is like funky old collard greens. everything else is just spices.

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rockingamer2

Yep! Your harmony (basically chords) dictates what key you are in. That progression makes A the home note. Everything else is defined by how it related to that note. That's why you can use any note you want, whether or not it's in the major or minor scale. It's just those are the most useful the most often.

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Nervouspace

So if I wanted to play get the full A Dorian flavor

I would need my progression to have a Maj6 interval?

Hydra150

or you could just use the maj6 note in your melody. whatever. neednt call it 'dorian' flavour though, don't fixate on that, it's just a term that was probably used retroactively by guitarists.

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Nervouspace

I hate to keep talking about this...but I want so badly to understand this and I'm kind of at a dead end.


If everything is just Minor and Major what kind of chord progression is even REQUIRED to get a one of the other tonalities? Phrygian, Lydian, Dorian, Mixolydian.

I know Mixolydian is easily a 7 chord but its also Major?

and everything I were to play in my above Am progression will just be Minor with accidentals due to the Harmony what can I do to get out of Minor/Major w/ accidentals and into playing modes?

Hydra150

First answer me this; why are you chasing these other tonalities? What is it you want to do with them that you feel you can't do with using major/minor (with accidentals where desired)?
Is it because you read about it in a vague interview with a lead guitarist who didn't know what he was really talking about?

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rockingamer2

If you want to actually play in a mode you will either have to have a 2 chord vamp (two chords played over and over) that highlights the root and the color tone of the mode or a single pedal tone (of your root) and use ONLY the notes of the mode. This is why people moved on from them hundreds of years ago. They were too limiting.

You can't really have a chord progression with modes because modes don't allow you to "progress" anywhere. You're stuck using the same seven notes and same chords or pedal tone. Stuff gets boring quick.

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Nervouspace

But look at this article

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=999592


He used a full progression for Phrygian and you can hear the differences in the scales


and to answer your question Hydra150, I'm a huge Jon Petrucci fan and yes I did hear about him in one of his articles about practicing this shape of this mode and what not

AeolianWolf

you are using them 0% correctly. frankly, you couldn't be using them any less correctly if you tried.



+1.



simple two-step process:

1) i know theory.
2) that is textbook A minor.

QED



they aren't tonalities. modes, by their very nature, are not designed for chord progressions. any harmonies produced by modal scales in their original form were coincidental -- formed by the interaction of several distinct melodies.



you mean you want to restrict yourself? okay, then you must use only the following notes in your melody and harmony: A B C D E F# G. accidentals are forbidden (except for the occasional Bb or a G# at cadence points).

or you can take full advantage of the tonal system that has evolved from the concepts you're looking to reinvent the wheel to utilize, and not fall prey to any such restrictions.



sure, it has a difference in sound, and that's reason to use it. but you're welcome (as is anyone browsing this thread and reading this post) to try to refute the point that it's simply in E minor, rather than strictly in E phrygian.



great guitarist -- but, by all accounts, petrucci's command of theory is shit.

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Hydra150

Practice scale shapes by all means, practice various positions and fingerings, but it seems that some famous guitarists mistakenly calling these shapes 'modes' has confused you a bit.

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