Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #41
Spaztikko
*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
I got some beef with modes.

Spaztikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:00 PM   #42
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
do you guys remember liam
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:01 PM   #43
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
...
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:03 PM   #44
Spaztikko
*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
do you guys remember liam


Who doesn't remember steve vai?
Spaztikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:05 PM   #45
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
He should be back around Jan/February.
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #46
Nervouspace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Ok woah woah hold on just a minute. Before you all junk up my thread with youtube food and throw it in the trash can. I read up alot of stuff on modes tonight.


How can you tell me this isn't a modal progression?

Am, C, G, F

If I played A Dorian then switched to A Phrygian?
Nervouspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:52 PM   #47
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
Ok woah woah hold on just a minute. Before you all junk up my thread with youtube food and throw it in the trash can. I read up alot of stuff on modes tonight.


How can you tell me this isn't a modal progression?

Am, C, G, F

If I played A Dorian then switched to A Phrygian?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
you realize the word "progression" in itself is completely in contrast to the point of modes. there's no cadence, there's no resolution, there's no "fulfillment" where it all makes sense.

it's essentially such a vague grouping of notes that the tonic is unstable enough for the melody to reciprocate incredibly primitive tendencies that became obsolete with the introduction of tonal music.


you can't just 'switch' modes, just like you can't just change from a strong sense of tonal center that we're used to back into the weak, simple, obsolete harmonic structure of modal music. you're mixing up accidentals and scale shapes for something that has nothing to do with either of them outside of "become a badass guitarist in 3 days"-style books and websites.
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:56 PM   #48
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
That is in A minor. Any note you play will be in the key of A minor. You can used accidentals like a major 6th to get a "flavor" of Dorian, or a Bb to get a "flavor" of Phrygian, but you are by no means playing with modes. Your chord progression doesn't allow it.
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:13 PM   #49
Nervouspace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Oh I think I am starting to understand, so it is entirely up to my chord progression? Not exactly the key and DEFINANTLY not the shapes w/accidentals I thought made up modal playing earlier...
Nervouspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:15 PM   #50
primusfan
Conspiracy Music Theorist
 
primusfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LOLville, KY
basically anything with a b3. for that reason i'd say the most important thing is gravitate towards the chord tones. everything else is just a matter of flavor and gravitational pull. the root is your meat, the third is the potatoes. the fifth is like okay cornbread. you can take it or leave it. meh. the seventh is like funky old collard greens. everything else is just spices.
__________________
#DTWD
primusfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:23 PM   #51
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
Oh I think I am starting to understand, so it is entirely up to my chord progression? Not exactly the key and DEFINANTLY not the shapes w/accidentals I thought made up modal playing earlier...

Yep! Your harmony (basically chords) dictates what key you are in. That progression makes A the home note. Everything else is defined by how it related to that note. That's why you can use any note you want, whether or not it's in the major or minor scale. It's just those are the most useful the most often.
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:31 PM   #52
Nervouspace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
So if I wanted to play get the full A Dorian flavor

I would need my progression to have a Maj6 interval?
Nervouspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:36 PM   #53
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
or you could just use the maj6 note in your melody. whatever. neednt call it 'dorian' flavour though, don't fixate on that, it's just a term that was probably used retroactively by guitarists.
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:11 AM   #54
Nervouspace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
I hate to keep talking about this...but I want so badly to understand this and I'm kind of at a dead end.


If everything is just Minor and Major what kind of chord progression is even REQUIRED to get a one of the other tonalities? Phrygian, Lydian, Dorian, Mixolydian.

I know Mixolydian is easily a 7 chord but its also Major?

and everything I were to play in my above Am progression will just be Minor with accidentals due to the Harmony what can I do to get out of Minor/Major w/ accidentals and into playing modes?
Nervouspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:13 AM   #55
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
First answer me this; why are you chasing these other tonalities? What is it you want to do with them that you feel you can't do with using major/minor (with accidentals where desired)?
Is it because you read about it in a vague interview with a lead guitarist who didn't know what he was really talking about?
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:22 AM   #56
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
If you want to actually play in a mode you will either have to have a 2 chord vamp (two chords played over and over) that highlights the root and the color tone of the mode or a single pedal tone (of your root) and use ONLY the notes of the mode. This is why people moved on from them hundreds of years ago. They were too limiting.

You can't really have a chord progression with modes because modes don't allow you to "progress" anywhere. You're stuck using the same seven notes and same chords or pedal tone. Stuff gets boring quick.
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:34 AM   #57
Nervouspace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
But look at this article

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=999592


He used a full progression for Phrygian and you can hear the differences in the scales


and to answer your question Hydra150, I'm a huge Jon Petrucci fan and yes I did hear about him in one of his articles about practicing this shape of this mode and what not
Nervouspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:19 AM   #58
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
 
AeolianWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
I am using different positions of the major/minor scales on the fretboard.

I know if I play A Dorian it's just the second shape of G major and so forth.

How am I not using them correctly?


you are using them 0% correctly. frankly, you couldn't be using them any less correctly if you tried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrusso
If you're in the key of G major, you will NEVER be able to play A Dorian, even if you go straight up and down the scale, because the harmony doesn't allow it.


+1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
How can you tell me this isn't a modal progression?

Am, C, G, F

If I played A Dorian then switched to A Phrygian?


simple two-step process:

1) i know theory.
2) that is textbook A minor.

QED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
If everything is just Minor and Major what kind of chord progression is even REQUIRED to get a one of the other tonalities? Phrygian, Lydian, Dorian, Mixolydian.


they aren't tonalities. modes, by their very nature, are not designed for chord progressions. any harmonies produced by modal scales in their original form were coincidental -- formed by the interaction of several distinct melodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
and everything I were to play in my above Am progression will just be Minor with accidentals due to the Harmony what can I do to get out of Minor/Major w/ accidentals and into playing modes?


you mean you want to restrict yourself? okay, then you must use only the following notes in your melody and harmony: A B C D E F# G. accidentals are forbidden (except for the occasional Bb or a G# at cadence points).

or you can take full advantage of the tonal system that has evolved from the concepts you're looking to reinvent the wheel to utilize, and not fall prey to any such restrictions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
But look at this article

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=999592

He used a full progression for Phrygian and you can hear the differences in the scales


sure, it has a difference in sound, and that's reason to use it. but you're welcome (as is anyone browsing this thread and reading this post) to try to refute the point that it's simply in E minor, rather than strictly in E phrygian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
and to answer your question Hydra150, I'm a huge Jon Petrucci fan and yes I did hear about him in one of his articles about practicing this shape of this mode and what not


great guitarist -- but, by all accounts, petrucci's command of theory is shit.
__________________
i'm on the vidya!

xbox gamertag: Aeolion
psid: Blackwindsamurai (holy **** i want a shorter one)
AeolianWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:23 AM   #59
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
Practice scale shapes by all means, practice various positions and fingerings, but it seems that some famous guitarists mistakenly calling these shapes 'modes' has confused you a bit.
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:27 AM   #60
91RG350
At least Microsoft cared
 
91RG350's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervouspace
....So I MUST be using the modes wrong. All I know is. I'm in G Major. I got my Major shape, Dorian Shape, Phrygian/Lydian Shape, Mixolydian Shape, and Aeolian Shape. and if I connect them all I got one long G Major scale going all the way up the fretboard.

You nailed a crucial piece of understanding here, mate... its one long G maj scale

If you add notes outside of G major, then you will, in some peoples eyes, be "going modal".. and thats fine.... if it sounds good, keep it....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
91RG350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:38 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.