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Old 12-03-2012, 02:15 AM   #1
trashedlostfdup
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lower gain that is heavier

i have been listening to Shadows Fall's The Art of Balance album. its a very heavy album, but they really don't use enough. specifically the song "a fire in babylon"

so effectly how can you get the gain down and still sound as heavy as they do?

IIRC on that album they were using JCM800's with t75's and V'30's in an X pattern. i also think they used emg's as well.

any tricks to using less gain and sound heavier without studio magic?

referance

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:19 AM   #2
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Sounds like quite a lot of compression going on in there. Trouble is that it's hard to tell where it's coming from. The entire mix sounds as compressed as all shit.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:20 AM   #3
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That is the only album I like from them. Great songs and riffs.

Sorry I can't help with your question.

JCM800, maxon boost.

Now they use Rivera knucklehad tre. EMG 85 in the bridge.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Sounds like quite a lot of compression going on in there. Trouble is that it's hard to tell where it's coming from. The entire mix sounds as compressed as all shit.


i know its the best video i could find. i have been listening the album which of course sounds better, but there definitely is some compression somewhere in the chain.

would you agree that it is pretty 'heavey' and that the gain isn't that high? just for some reassurance.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:25 AM   #5
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I think a lot of the perceived heaviness in that track is from the bass. The guitars themselves sound relatively thin.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 AM   #6
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multi tracking, compression, and multi tracked, and possibly distorted bass are all big reasons why that sounds so heavy
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:28 AM   #7
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A good thick bass guitar with some light gain is a great start. Also, a touch responsive amp can have a lot to do with it. My DSL is kept with gain below 6 most of the time, but I can play metal on it just fine. I use lots of mids, a medium treble, and a thick bass. Makes it sound bigger than it is.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:30 AM   #8
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IMO its always in the way/style you play your instrument. Slayer in the last ten years seems to me have rolled back the gain on the guitars compared to the 90's, yet they still sound just as aggressive as ever.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:31 AM   #9
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Overdubs and multiple mic positions.

Recorded metal tones that are done right are not overtly gainy. Considerably less gain is dialed in than you would suspect, and overdubs create the thickness of tone.

Live is a different story. You'll typically notice that more gain is dialed in live to create as best a representation as possible of the recorded tone when the magic of overdubbing is not an option. Clarity and definition suffers in almost every instance.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:35 AM   #10
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anything other than studio magic besides the bass?
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
anything other than studio magic besides the bass?


A properly voiced amp.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:37 AM   #12
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Sounds like a high pass filter on the guitars which you could achieve somewhat with an MXR 10 band. helps give the bass it's own space and free up the mix
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:38 AM   #13
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What he needs is a Hybris, doesn't he Craig?
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxSilentxLine
Sounds like a high pass filter on the guitars which you could achieve somewhat with an MXR 10 band. helps give the bass it's own space and free up the mix

Almost every recording you hear has high pass filter on the guitar, metal or not.
Like you said, it cuts out the bass's frequencies and gives a clearer mix.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwolf291
Almost every recording you hear has high pass filter on the guitar, metal or not.
Like you said, it cuts out the bass's frequencies and gives a clearer mix.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:30 AM   #16
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As with most metal bands, or in fact with almost any band at all, it is impossible to replicate their tone with just one guitar. Search the techniques "double tracking", or some cases even "quad tracking".

Compression will help get you there, but as mentioned earlier, a properly voiced amp with the right EQ settings and cabinet/speakers is essential.

100% of this has been mentioned in previous posts, but I'm just emphasizing the fact that you will find it near impossible to replicate this tone by yourself.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:30 AM   #17
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Didn't listen to the song but I'm going to go with good bass tone and playing style. A lot is in your playing style, when you start recording you'll notice that tone is verrrrry much in the fingers. I sound like poop through every amp while people like Ola Englund and probably the guys on the video sound good on every amp.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:36 AM   #18
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You're confusing talent with tone. Eric Clapton sounds good every time but his tones over the years have changed dramatically. You can still tell it's Clapton but Beano sounds different to Wheels of Fire which sounds totally different to Slowhand.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:36 AM   #19
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i am not trying to emulate their tone, i am just looking for ideas to get heavy without as much gain in a live situation. even live they didn't have searing gain, i have seen them at least five times.

thanks for the words, i don't have studio magic
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:40 AM   #20
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What I've found works quite well is a touch of pitch shifting mixed into the background. Not a fuzz type octaver but a pitch shifter. I use my Quadraverb. It's so low in the mix that it's hard to hear but it thickens up the sound surprisingly well.
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