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Old 12-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #1
Lyrax
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Help with solos.

I am a decent riff writer but when it comes to writing solos I suck donkeyballs.
The most of the time I write songs with these "solos" that are made up of these weird noises, kinda like Tom Morello would do in Rage Against The Machine, and that was pretty interesting, but now as I have expanded my playing and my taste of genres I want to write proper solos.

I try to write solos but they just don`t sound good and I don`t really wan`t to write these shredding-solos.
I will post two songs which contain solos that sound like those I would like to write.
If you know a song that has this type of solo I would appreciate if you wrote the name of it so I can study a tab to see the structure of the solo and what not.

Here`s the first example, solo starts at 2:23:

And here is the second example, solo starts at 2:00 :


Just for fun, guess who the singer is!
This guy has sold multi platinum with his band, he is an American, they released a record this year. This band has two front men. He was about 17-18 when he recorded these songs
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #2
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transcribe them

tabs are babyfood for guitarists
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:41 PM   #3
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Generally speaking, I'd treat a guitar solo the same as a book. Give it a beginning, a middle and an end. Give it some catchy hooks that you can sing back to yourself, and obviously keep it in key. Think a little bit about how you want different sections to be phrased and shape it gradually.

Oftentimes, I'll just play over the backing section a few times and see what feels naturally while improvising. Whatever keeps sneaking in, I'll use as the basis for where the solo is going to go.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.B.MetalTabber
Generally speaking, I'd treat a guitar solo the same as a book. Give it a beginning, a middle and an end. Give it some catchy hooks that you can sing back to yourself, and obviously keep it in key. Think a little bit about how you want different sections to be phrased and shape it gradually.


did you really think to compare a solo to a book rather than a song
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.B.MetalTabber
Generally speaking, I'd treat a guitar solo the same as a book. Give it a beginning, a middle and an end. Give it some catchy hooks that you can sing back to yourself, and obviously keep it in key. Think a little bit about how you want different sections to be phrased and shape it gradually.

Oftentimes, I'll just play over the backing section a few times and see what feels naturally while improvising. Whatever keeps sneaking in, I'll use as the basis for where the solo is going to go.


The first part you wrote actually rhymed pretty good haha
No but thanks for the advice.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #6
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Also, how much would music theory help when writing decent solos?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #7
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have you actually tried learning these solos

if you say there aren't tabs i'll hit you
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
have you actually tried learning these solos

if you say there aren't tabs i'll hit you

Believe Me doesn`t have a tab but Sometimes does.
But I asked if you guys knew any songs that has similar solos to this and if you do know any song, you would write the name so I could check it out.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #9
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if you want to write solos like those

learn those solos

use your ear. is it that hard?

want to write music? learn music. like, actually learn it. sit with the song and figure it out and translate it from ear to instrument. don't look at some tabs and pick your nose wondering why you can't write music if you don't know how to learn it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
if you want to write solos like those

learn those solos

use your ear. is it that hard?

want to write music? learn music. like, actually learn it. sit with the song and figure it out and translate it from ear to instrument. don't look at some tabs and pick your nose wondering why you can't write music if you don't know how to learn it.

Wise words..
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrax
Also, how much would music theory help when writing decent solos?


assuming you also utilize your ear, it would make you about 500 times more effective.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
assuming you also utilize your ear, it would make you about 500 times more effective.

Could you point out some helpful points in the music theory swamp that would be the most helpful?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrax
Could you point out some helpful points in the music theory swamp that would be the most helpful?


For me, it's all about harmonizing to the underlying chords and the ability to construct a melody via phrasing. Structural and passing tones, as well as basic tension and release (my solos tend to climb in pitch and end on a high note).
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #14
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Do you know the notes on the fretboard? I think that's always the first place to start.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CryogenicHusk
Do you know the notes on the fretboard? I think that's always the first place to start.

How could memorizing the notes on the fretboard help me with writing solos?
I know the notes from the 5th fret and below.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:16 PM   #16
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I don't think memorizing the notes is as important as being able to play over the neck in key. While knowing the notes certainly helps you do that, it isn't necessary.

David Gilmour (Pink Floyd), while he doesn't write solos like the ones you have here, is an exceptional guitarist. He composes his solos by improvising and recording his improvisations, and then taking the parts he likes and putting them together into a single piece.

If you can't improvise effectively over the riffs in songs like these, I would work on that first. You don't need to write solos like Gilmour does, but you do need to know how to find the notes you're hearing in your head.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:19 PM   #17
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Thanks, that is pretty helpful!
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealUnrealRob
I don't think memorizing the notes is as important as being able to play over the neck in key. While knowing the notes certainly helps you do that, it isn't necessary.


While it is definitely possible to memorize scale patterns using sheer muscle memory and thus play all over the neck in key, you will eventually want more than just that... At least I did (and still do).

And I think knowing the notes on the fretboard is the easiest bit of theory there is (it is a very easy pattern: 12 notes in alphabetical order that repeats itself and has lots of things you can help yourself with, including those markings on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc, frets and if you know the names of your strings you can help yourself with those too... I remember that's how I started, using all those guides together) and will be essential when you want to find triads and chords on different parts of the fretboard (which will help your improvisational skills as well, which, you, yourself, suggested TS work on).
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #19
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Yeah, I know the strings, and I can get most of the notes within two or three seconds lol. But I mean more about not even using the boxes, but playing by feel. Knowing what note you want and knowing how to get to it from the note you're playing right now. I guess it's a mix of relative pitch plus remembering the relationships between the strings.

I haven't learned the various pentatonic boxes all that well, but I'm able to move up and down the neck a bit, and I'm getting better. It would probably make it exceptionally easier if I practiced my scale boxes, but I'm too lazy. The pentatonic, major, and minor scales are a must though.

You bring up good points and I want to practice more now that the semester is over. TS should definitely heed your advice.


Especially because it would help you jump from one spot to another instead of having to kind of work your way to a new spot if you're not staying in the scale box.

Last edited by RealUnrealRob : 12-05-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealUnrealRob
Yeah, I know the strings, and I can get most of the notes within two or three seconds lol.


That counts as knowing the notes, though. I mean, knowing what you know you can find any chord or triad anywhere. I'll just take a bit longer. Sure with a bit of practice it'll take less than 2 or 3 secs, but eventually it'll be instantaneous. I mean to me it sounds like TS is flying blind if he tries to go past the 5th fret.

good luck to all.
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