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Old 12-07-2012, 01:42 AM   #21
Offworld92
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Update with more pictures: http://www.espguitars.com/news/LTD-Elite.html

I can't believe these Horizon IIIs don't have the cockstock. I'm seriously disappointed and sad right now.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:08 AM   #22
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some look nice, some are quite ugly.

i agree i think they are trying to get in the market with ibby prestiges and premiums.

i don't know why anybody would buy them, you could pick up a used ESP for probably less than one of them for some models.

its kind of odd, Charvel and (if i am correct) Jackson's lose their Japanese factory, and LTD's are being made in japan.

why jackson? why
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:28 AM   #23
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Yeah, seems like a very obvious reaction to the Ibanez Premium line. Not sure it will go well though, since they'll likely be priced a lot higher than the Premiums. You can already get a Prestige for barely more than an LTD Deluxe.

They lost my sale by putting a regular 6 in line headstock on the Horizon III. I seriously can't understand what they were thinking. Was the old teardrop not METULZ enough?
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
Yeah, seems like a very obvious reaction to the Ibanez Premium line. Not sure it will go well though, since they'll likely be priced a lot higher than the Premiums. You can already get a Prestige for barely more than an LTD Deluxe.

They lost my sale by putting a regular 6 in line headstock on the Horizon III. I seriously can't understand what they were thinking. Was the old teardrop not METULZ enough?


i paid like $380 in case with all candy and no use for my Prestige 2570EVSL, i paid a little under $700 new for my 3550MZ (guitar center issue my rep took good care of me).

the premiums aren't even that great either. i literally cut my hand running it up the side of the neck. small knick, not a big deal, but the principle is that it shouldn't ever happen on a $900 or whatever guitar.

the other two i played were far better, but they are nothing like either of my prestiges.

and if a get anything made by ESP, it would be a ESP Standard line guitar. i am not really a fan of ESP, but the ESP line is nice.

i owned a EC400 EC1000 and EC401. the 400 was just as good as the 1000, and the 401 was terrible. i don't think i owned any of them for longer than a week, just didn't like them. but the standard ESP line is great. however i like the feel of the prestiges more and they can be found much cheaper, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't buy an ESP. i like the vipers the most.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:42 AM   #25
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I'm sort of the opposite. I really want to love Ibanez and play the hell out of them, but the necks are just two thin for me. My RG320 barely gets used at all, and I can't play it for long. My hand just cramps up. The ESP Thin U is perfectly shaped to my hand though, so I'm pretty sold on them.

Yeah, the Indonesian/Chinese LTDs are a joke. My Korean H-301 is flawless, and the old 400s are just as good but with better stock electronics. I honestly think my H-301 is higher quality than my newer EC-1000, which is really sad. Pretty curious about how the quality of these Elites will be.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
I'm sort of the opposite. I really want to love Ibanez and play the hell out of them, but the necks are just two thin for me. My RG320 barely gets used at all, and I can't play it for long. My hand just cramps up. The ESP Thin U is perfectly shaped to my hand though, so I'm pretty sold on them.

Yeah, the Indonesian/Chinese LTDs are a joke. My Korean H-301 is flawless, and the old 400s are just as good but with better stock electronics. I honestly think my H-301 is higher quality than my newer EC-1000, which is really sad. Pretty curious about how the quality of these Elites will be.


for some reason i am never fussy with neck profile or really anything. i can play my LP (50's or 60's necks) just like either prestige (minus the term obviously), and be perfectly fine on either one. my hands have never cramped.

also IIRC the prestige necks seem a little thicker than the low model ibbys, but i may remember wrong. i don't think i have played any guitar at GC since the premium incident, not that it matters at all, but i just have mine with me, or if i don't i usually come in to buy a used (or steeply discounted) new guitar.

i think the people who don't know a whole lot about gear will probably buy them because they are pretty. MIJ can mean a lot or it can mean nothing. it really comes down to the builders, quality of parts, and time put in to build them.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:57 AM   #27
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I don't think it's the thinness really that bothers me, it's the flatness. It just feels awful, haha. If it had a good consistent curve like a U on it rather than a D, it'd probably be fine. Incidentally I love Gibson 50's necks and hate the 60's necks. You're lucky.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
I don't think it's the thinness really that bothers me, it's the flatness. It just feels awful, haha. If it had a good consistent curve like a U on it rather than a D, it'd probably be fine. Incidentally I love Gibson 50's necks and hate the 60's necks. You're lucky.


i don't think that it is really 'luck' that allows you to play more guitars, but playing lots of different guitars with different specs. within a year of starting playing guitar i bought 5, and alternated all of them and got used to them, and maybe thats why i can play the broad range i do. and i love 50's necks too. so rich with a slide.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:13 AM   #29
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no way!!! horizon IIIs?!?! i want that purple one! though i hate the custom 5 and jazz pups so those will have to get replaced immediately. but still. fkn sexy as hell there.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:15 AM   #30
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I think some people here are so used to the 2nd hand market that they forget about the relatively large number of new guitar sales. Yes, they are probably not a good deal new vs a used ESP. The same can be said about many new guitars that still sell like mad. $800-900 for a new Schecter Hellraiser or EC-1000 is absurd when you can buy a used Ibanez Prestige for that or less, but that doesn't seem to be slowing the market down too much.

Besides, it doesn't matter because once these things get rolling, the argument won't be a new LTD elite vs a used ESP, it's going to be a used LTD Elite vs a used ESP. It's pretty doubtful that they will be the same price used. And if these LTD elites are available at GC, they will be far easier to come by than ESPs. Variety is a great thing. I sure as hell am not impressed with the used selection of ESPs out there. I'm never excited to see another black Horizon pop up.

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
Update with more pictures: http://www.espguitars.com/news/LTD-Elite.html

I can't believe these Horizon IIIs don't have the cockstock. I'm seriously disappointed and sad right now.



I know, wtf the headstock was one of the reasons they looked unique. Sigh.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:48 AM   #32
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I'm okay with the headstock. I'm even more happy that it's the fixed bridge version that has the purple-y-blue finish. That's my favourite ESP finish and that alone has me twice as sold on the guitar. If it was 24.75" scale I'd probably say to hell with it and pre-order one right now, but 25.5" isn't my favourite. Will wait on reviews and if they seem any good, I'll have an army of them asap.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:06 AM   #33
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I've seen lots of these models under Edwards, oh look, http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/sn/E-SN-150FR.html , does look like the "new" esp elite st-1 no ?
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:18 AM   #34
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I'll be excited once we know what the construction is like. They may be 'MIJ', but that's not enough reason to believe they stack up to an ESP Standard or Original line. Edwards are 'MIJ', and nice guitars, but it doesn't take a genius to work out they're not quite as nice as an ESP Standard. These could simply be LTD Deluxe quality without the bling. Not bad guitars by any means, I'm sure, but let's not get too excited so soon.


+1

I'd also wonder how much they're actually MIJ- they could easily just be rebranded edwardses, and a fair bit of the work on edwardses is done in china.

that being said, the ST1 does look awesome. Wish they had an HSH version too, though. EDIT: aw come on, JB and classic stacks? I already have more JBs than I know what to do with, and I thought the classic stacks were horrible when i tried them on a japanese jackson
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #35
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That one at the bottom....oh my...
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:41 AM   #36
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Looks totally sweet. All that left is the price.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:00 AM   #37
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gief that blue one with maple fretboard :&
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:07 AM   #38
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I don't understand the ESP fascination with Duncan, especially the JB. I have one guitar with the standard duncan '59/JB that ESP love so much, and there's no way I'm going to spend big money on a guitar just to get the exact same pup configuration. I don't suppose this is a sign that LTD is going to cancel its deluxe line guitars with duncans? Otherwise... Not sure what the difference is going to be between the EC-1000 with duncans and the Elite LPs.

The ST-1 looks pretty cool. I know it goes against the spirit of the instrument/spirit of stealing from Ibanez, but I wish they'd make a stoptail version.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:19 AM   #39
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The JB is the jack of all trades pup. It makes perfect sense to use it as a stock pup. The 59 just happens to go week with it.

Ibanez seems to be the only company who realizes that you can't please everyone and just uses their in house pups to lower cost. Much smarter.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by miio
gief that blue one with maple fretboard :&


yeah i'm a total sucker for aqua bursts

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuraigoomba
I don't understand the ESP fascination with Duncan, especially the JB. I have one guitar with the standard duncan '59/JB that ESP love so much, and there's no way I'm going to spend big money on a guitar just to get the exact same pup configuration.


Exactly. I already have an edwards with a JB/59. Now, I'm not gonna buy a bad guitar just to get a different set of stock pickups; nor am I gonna completely discount something with a JB if everything else about it were perfect. But I've definitely thought twice about guitars before if they had pickups I already had, and often just went off the idea and didn't buy the thing. That happened with the charvel pro mods (the MIJ ones). One had a JB and '59, the other had a tone zone and evo. I have all those pickups already. On a guitar like that where i was vacillating and could have gone either way, having stock pickups I already have could swing me towards not bothering.

Now... I guess the manufacturers may say, "But we have to appeal to all players- not everyone already has a JB." That's fair enough. However, my answer to that is, those of us who buy tons of guitars are worth more to them as customers than the guy who buys 1 guitar and stops. Maybe the one-guitar person is a bigger demographic. But some of us buy 5 or 6 guitars, maybe more. Are there really 5 or 6 times as many people who only buy one guitar? I dunno. I'd also say that a lot of those people who only have the one guitar buy a beginner guitar and then stop. So they're not really in this market, either.

Plus I mean look at the edwards models. they use tons of different duncan models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
The JB is the jack of all trades pup. It makes perfect sense to use it as a stock pup. The 59 just happens to go week with it.


sure- but on almost every single guitar? Even ones that really don't suit it? Plus I mean they use EMGs. "We won't use a duncan custom 5 which is arguably as versatile as a JB but have no problem using EMGs" doesn't make a whole heap of sense, if you ask me. It's mainly marketing, I think. It's like vintage 30s in speaker cabs. Sell people what they want to buy, even if it's silly.
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