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Old 12-09-2012, 05:56 AM   #21
piratemetalhead
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Originally Posted by Stranglehold
That video was good, but it doesn't have enough j-pop influence for my liking.


there's tons!
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:15 AM   #22
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Danza are probs my new favourite band for increasing muscle while lowering brain cell count. Awesome rhythms, great slammy riffs, total lack of any fucks given.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by piratemetalhead
I've only listened to Empires a few years ago, didn't really hold any of my attention :/

Out of curiosity I searched deathcore on my itunes and I was surprised none of the artists in my library were tagged

But uuh, these guys are close enough >.> I suppose they're a sort of technical death grindcore or something, but the breakdowns and tongue in cheek nature really make it seem pretty deathcore to me. Now I feel like this is one of the directions djent COULD have taken Listening to them for more than like, half an hour makes me feel like I'm having my brain drilled with an elaborately mathematical form of stupid, but I love dat breakdown. Sounds like every computer in the world crashing and a massive nuclear meltdown



(old video is old)

Ugh....that was cool for about 10 secs.

Though I'm sure if that was one of my breakdowns that my drummer and I would think it was the coolest thing under the sun
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #24
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Well, I've only listened to their second album, I don't think I've ever brought myself to listen through it all at once (I forgot how much I loved the bassist at 0:35 of that video though ahaha)

It's basically just nothing but breakdowns, groove riffs, and atonal tapping/ sweeping. A lot of like Beneath the Massacre actually, which is another deathcore band that I can listen to for about ten minutes (half an hour was a bit of overestimating haha) before I get harsh "listener fatigue". Another deathcore band I used to listen to is Ion Dissonance, which is kind of a similar sort of technical head ache tough guy breakdown thing haha, this song in particular reminds me of Despised Icon. This one is very one dimensional too, but I think it's good for what it is haha

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:30 PM   #25
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There's only one deathcore band worth listening to.

And they're called:

Slice the Cake

Honestly excellent, excellent music.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:33 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by LucasGtrGod
There's only one deathcore band worth listening to.

And they're called:

Slice the Cake

Honestly excellent, excellent music.


The bass ruined it for me.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:22 AM   #27
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Yeah.

They should totally fire that guy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
What on earth is the old brand of it? 'Pierced From Within'?

I guess I was more thinking stuff from the '90s.


But anyway, disregard "old brand". It was badly phrased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis415
Check these Out:
Glass Cloud - The Royal Thousand
Veil of Maya - Eclipse
Periphery - Periphery II: This Time It's Personal
Elitist - Earth, Reshape Reason
Uneven Structure - Februus
Born of Osiris - The Discovery
Vildhjarta - Masstaden

Um...those two I bolded are NOT Deathcore. They're really more "Djent"-ish. Honestly, I'd call them both "Progressive Metal", because I hate the term "Djent".

Veil of Maya is cool though. I need to get some of their stuff. Any recommendations on where I should start, guys?
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Um...those two I bolded are NOT Deathcore. They're really more "Djent"-ish. Honestly, I'd call them both "Progressive Metal", because I hate the term "Djent".
Describe what metal subgenre you believe those bands to be "progressing", please.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Steve08
Describe what metal subgenre you believe those bands to be "progressing", please.


He's using it in the sense that it's more of a sub-genre than an actual progression from one sound to the other and stuff.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
He's using it in the sense that it's more of a sub-genre than an actual progression from one sound to the other and stuff.
The subgenre, in this case, would be "metalcore" as all djent falls more or less within those parameters. Using "progressive metal" as a subgenre is not acceptable because that's implying "metal" is some over-arching, unique genre in and of itself, which obviously is not true. You have the root genre, heavy metal, which everyone understands to be Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Mercyful Fate and so on, and all other styles of metal are derived from that. Using "progressive metal" as a subgenre is equivalent to me saying "cheese", and, upon being asked about what kind of cheese forms the subject of my statement, merely reiterating "cheese" instead of specifying between cheddar, Swiss, blue, etc, much in the same way that saying "metal" says nothing to anyone and that merely tacking on "progressive" doesn't serve to codify it any further.

True progression, or "progressive X metal" is achieved when there is an X (or XY, as in the case of black/death-- like Necros Christos, not Behemoth) to progress upon the boundaries of. All bands that are typically dubbed "progressive metal" consist, with almost no exception, of a vast array of influences/sounds that are strung together to provide some semblance of sonic identity without ever actually achieving such a thing, or are djent.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:02 PM   #32
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I don't disagree with any that, except the Metalcore statement.

What are some factors about Djent bands that make them Metalcore?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:22 PM   #33
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Well, August Burns Red pioneered the whole "repeated lead melody on top of chugging" thing as early as 2005, for one thing. That idea in and of itself comprises a large portion of djent guitar work, though the most distinctive bands of the genre are not so derivative as to stick to that. But in general, taking the average djent song and resetting the "grooves" and melodies into less "quirky" circumstance would yield metalcore songs.

Plus, take the average Risecore band, or really any metalcore band with some sort of video single that is signed to a popular American "-core" label like Rise, or alternatively Sumerian, Mediaskare and so on, and compare the aesthetic properties present there with any typical, derivative djent band and there's almost no difference by any standard. "Djent" aesthetic in the form of bass-scooped guitar tone has taken over mainstream metalcore production, and really, there is no substance to this kind of music beyond aesthetics, so that's the only thing that can really be discussed in the context of those bands, or be used to determine a band's status as metalcore.

I'm not really familiar with enough of this stuff to make assertions on a band-to-band level but I would be happy to provide more band-specific analysis if necessary, I'd just need for you to provide examples to be critiqued, obviously. However, a cursory search of "progressive metal" immediately resulted in me finding this:



This whole composition is oriented entirely around the idea of "syncopated rhythm + lead melody", as one example, and so while it doesn't fit into the aesthetic established by August Burns Red, it is not dissimilar from a structural point of view (which is what truly matters). I'm sure most of these bands would fall within those parameters.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:35 PM   #34
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I assumed you were speaking of actual Metalcore since you were being detailed about genres and terms, not watered down Pop...stuff.

I agree they're similar to those bands. The whole idea of the chugging breakdown and the "Djent riff" are basically the same, except they have a different aesthetic. They're basically Pierce The Veil+Attack Attack!

Didn't see that link at first.

That really didn't sound like any Rise-core band or ABR...Sounded more like a lot of Prog Metal bands(Dream Theater clones who love the riff from Panic Attack).
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:45 PM   #35
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I should have been more clear, then, as I do enjoy "metallic hardcore" (much more than what is referred to as "nu-metalcore", as it were), such as Converge, Botch, Rorschach, Coalesce, Deadguy and Starkweather, but I did not have those bands in mind when referring to said watered down pop stuff. However, obviously you understand my points so this is no longer relevant. C'est la vie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
I agree they're similar to those bands. The whole idea of the chugging breakdown and the "Djent riff" are basically the same, except they have a different aesthetic. They're basically Pierce The Veil+Attack Attack!
Yes, this is entirely true. The latter part of your post also touches upon a highly beneficial subject, that of learning not to differentiate between things based on aesthetics, which is more or less the key to truly understanding all music, and by proxy, art, by holding it to an objective standard (what is there) rather than a subjective one (what we "perceive" to be there based on preconceived notions and conjecture).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
That really didn't sound like any Rise-core band or ABR...Sounded more like a lot of Prog Metal bands(Dream Theater clones who love the riff from Panic Attack).
As I previously stated, it is hard to draw aesthetic relation between August Burns Red and Gru, primarily because it is not there. However, if all the grooves were one note (as in a generic breakdown) and all the lead melodies were played in a minor scale, would there really be much difference?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve08
As I previously stated, it is hard to draw aesthetic relation between August Burns Red and Gru, primarily because it is not there. However, if all the grooves were one note (as in a generic breakdown) and all the lead melodies were played in a minor scale, would there really be much difference?


There wouldn't be all that much difference, I agree, but I think choosing Gru and ABR makes the point moot. Wouldn't, say, Periphery be a much more fitting band to compare to ABR?

I also would like to say that Becoming The Archetype did popular August Burns Red before August Burns Red.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:09 AM   #37
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Perhaps a case could be made for stuff from the first album, new Periphery strikes me more as commercial rock than anything else, though. Like, honestly.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Steve08
Perhaps a case could be made for stuff from the first album, new Periphery strikes me more as commercial rock than anything else, though. Like, honestly.


I know it won't sound good, but is it bad that I am going to listen to the new album just to hear it and torture myself?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:28 AM   #39
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Well, you and I listen to music in fairly different ways, I think, so I can't really say. Just listen to it with an open mind (though I will say it's an hour long, and does not warrant that much time).
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:48 AM   #40
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Fifteen minutes in and I'm done. I ain't got time for an hour of this.

It's not bad, but it's so many different things all at once that I couldn't listen to this in one setting even if I wanted to.
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