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Old 09-22-2013, 08:22 PM   #1
lordofthefood1
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guitar distortion pedal

I primarily use a bass muff, which I have no problem with, but I also use a Boss DF2 (basically same as the regular distortion). The df2 is fine when I DI from my 'preamp' pedal to my interface, but at practice it just cuts out all of my low end. I use multiple chains that are combined into one, so it isn't like all of my sound is going through the df2.

I'm not sure if it could be because my amp is just a single 15" with a horn? I don't know if 10" speakers help produce the sound better, but I think they might.

I am not very attached to the df2 because the bass muff is awesome, but I like having the two levels of distortion. It could just be used on recordings.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:04 PM   #2
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It's not your amp, assuming you're using a bass amp and cab. Some pedals designed for guitar (not all but some), particularly distortions, will cut a big chunk of your low end out.

Hopefully someone more well versed in the ins and outs of pedals and effects will jump in here if you want a more in depth explanation, but the short version is you'll probably be wanting to swap out that DF2 for something that's designed for bass guitar.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:55 AM   #3
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It depends where in the chain it is. If you run it in parallel with a dry signal then that would help make up for any loss in low end, however if you split the signal after it or merge them before it then it will kill the low end.
This would maintain some of your low end and give you an effected/dry mix. You can pick up 3/4" jack cable spliters for cheap, or you can use A/B/Y boxes or line selectors but they can be expensive. If you want to save space on the board and run this set up all the time then they're another choice.

Last edited by JKing138 : 09-23-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKing138
It depends where in the chain it is. If you run it in parallel with a dry signal then that would help make up for any loss in low end, however if you split the signal after it or merge them before it then it will kill the low end.
This would maintain some of your low end and give you an effected/dry mix. You can pick up 3/4" jack cable spliters for cheap, or you can use A/B/Y boxes or line selectors but they can be expensive. If you want to save space on the board and run this set up all the time then they're another choice.


I will second this.

After years of messing around with LOTS of different dirt pedals (Overdrive/Fuzz/Distortion), without shelling out money pedals that do a good job of blending the dry tone, the cheapest and most effective way of doing things is splitting the signal. This is especially true if you have other modulation effects going as well.

If you don't want to mess with splitting signals; as something to try, that's rather no-hassle, look at the Bass Big Muff. It has a dry toggle that will allow dry bass through with the fuzz acting independently. You can pick them up fairly cheap on the used market.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Din of Win
I will second this.

After years of messing around with LOTS of different dirt pedals (Overdrive/Fuzz/Distortion), without shelling out money pedals that do a good job of blending the dry tone, the cheapest and most effective way of doing things is splitting the signal. This is especially true if you have other modulation effects going as well.

If you don't want to mess with splitting signals; as something to try, that's rather no-hassle, look at the Bass Big Muff. It has a dry toggle that will allow dry bass through with the fuzz acting independently. You can pick them up fairly cheap on the used market.

I both of these things (chains and use a Big Bass Muff). Reread my post I always maintain at least one clean channel through my chains, if that helps.

My problem is that what sounds good through an interface and headphones does not sound good through an amp. Again, I suspect that the guitar pedal is just not usable with a bass amp (like Tostitos's response).

The low end is literally eaten by the pedal, and I guess that's that.

Thank you for your responses.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:53 AM   #6
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If your running several chains though not all you signal is going through the pedal so it can't kill all your lows. How are your chains set up? do you have any other pedals on your other chain? If the clean chain goes direct from the bass to amp then the volume on the chain with the DF-2 might drown out the other, you'll need about even volumes.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:59 AM   #7
Din of Win
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Originally Posted by lordofthefood1
I both of these things (chains and use a Big Bass Muff). Reread my post I always maintain at least one clean channel through my chains, if that helps.

My problem is that what sounds good through an interface and headphones does not sound good through an amp. Again, I suspect that the guitar pedal is just not usable with a bass amp (like Tostitos's response).

The low end is literally eaten by the pedal, and I guess that's that.

Thank you for your responses.


I have a terrible habit of replying to things at work, in the morning, while i'm drinking my coffee. Haha.. i need to actually FINISH the coffee before i try the old reading comprehension.

Sorry for that!
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKing138
If your running several chains though not all you signal is going through the pedal so it can't kill all your lows. How are your chains set up? do you have any other pedals on your other chain? If the clean chain goes direct from the bass to amp then the volume on the chain with the DF-2 might drown out the other, you'll need about even volumes.

That's why I was also asking about speakers :-p

The sound initially gets split by the big bass muff and one of those clean channels is maintained through the end (enters into a two-input delay with no volume problems). The wet chain eventually goes into a chorus pedal, which splits again, with the wet signal going to "A" on the ABY and the dry signal eventually being effected DF2. The DF2 eventually goes into the second input of the certain delay, which goes into "B" on the ABY. "Y" goes to the preamp. The bass muff is also set on "dry" mode, so it's wet signal has a dry signal below it. If I don't use that chorus then I have a dry signal in both my "A" and "B" and I usually use both.

Again, the low end is not dropped when I record through an interface and play through speakers with subs, but it completely vanishes when I play through my amp; it's just a single 15" with horn and it is a combo, but I don't think being a head/cab vs combo would be the problem.

(The ABY pedal doesn't keep true volume, but that isn't the problem).
(foodit: the "B" channel is a little softer. It doesn't matter if I do it through the "A" or "B" with the amp; the "B" sounds better with most of the weirdo effects because it allows the Bass Muff+Dry switch to be the louder half of the signal).

Again, it is probably just the fact that it is a guitar pedal and eats the low end. I still haven't heard many responses about the speaker sizes. I would have to assume even a proper bass distortion would sound better through 10s instead of a 15.


Double again, thanks for the replies
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Last edited by lordofthefood1 : 09-24-2013 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:45 PM   #9
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Not true I'm afraid. the speaker size does not have that much of an effect. In really general terms, 15" produce more low end, 10" have more punch. This is not completely true as it varies between amps and speaker combinations. Whether it sounds 'better' is a matter of taste.

If I was you I would go from the bass into the chorus, split the output, one to the DF-2 and one to the Big Muff, then merge them back in at the delay. That way when your not using your big muff, your clean comes through the bypassed DF-2 and when the DF-2 is engaged you have the clean through the bypassed Big Muff.

You can add other effects to either side, although I would place them on the side of the DF-2 so if any other lows are sucked you will always have them from the Big Muff side. Or use the ABY box to split them to start with and put the pre amp at the end of the chain with all the signals merged.

What pre-amp are you using?
What amp is it you are using?
Amp settings?
And out of curiosity, why the complicated chains?
Where are you taking the signal from when recording with the interface?
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKing138
Not true I'm afraid. the speaker size does not have that much of an effect. In really general terms, 15" produce more low end, 10" have more punch. This is not completely true as it varies between amps and speaker combinations. Whether it sounds 'better' is a matter of taste.

If I was you I would go from the bass into the chorus, split the output, one to the DF-2 and one to the Big Muff, then merge them back in at the delay. That way when your not using your big muff, your clean comes through the bypassed DF-2 and when the DF-2 is engaged you have the clean through the bypassed Big Muff.

You can add other effects to either side, although I would place them on the side of the DF-2 so if any other lows are sucked you will always have them from the Big Muff side. Or use the ABY box to split them to start with and put the pre amp at the end of the chain with all the signals merged.

What pre-amp are you using?
What amp is it you are using?
Amp settings?
And out of curiosity, why the complicated chains?
Where are you taking the signal from when recording with the interface?

I'll edit this later, but I'll go for the bold now.

This does happen already. Even so, when both of the pedals are engaged there is still a perfectly clean signal going through the chain unless the delay is on. It all isn't necessary, if I were going somewhere serious then I would just do the Bass Muff and Hartke "preamp" pedal. I use an Acoustic solid state amp and color it with the "preamp"

I like to mess around with the chains for fun and I am curious why some specifically don't sound good through my amp. I think it is kind of common sense why some sound good/bad accompanied with guitar/drums.

I take it from the XLR out on the preamp.

Again, I'm pretty sure the conclusion is just that it's a guitar pedal. And physics.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:38 AM   #11
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I take it from the XLR out on the preamp.

Again, I'm pretty sure the conclusion is just that it's a guitar pedal. And physics.[/QUOTE]

Basically yes, but the speaker size is not the issue, but as its good from the pre-amp I would suggest that its something to do with the amp.
What wattage is it? As it has a 15" it must have the power to produce the lows. If its just when you are playing at home, do you have the volume high enough for the amp to kick in the power.
I have a 300W Laney RB8 at low volumes it won't produce the lows because its not using enough power, however when you get to 2 on the dial on gain and volume the 15" makes the floor shake.
Inversely If its in a band situation and you have it cranked too high, because it doesn't have enough power, then the lows can get because they need the most power to generate.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm telling you stuff you already know.

Last edited by JKing138 : 09-25-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JKing138
I take it from the XLR out on the preamp.

Again, I'm pretty sure the conclusion is just that it's a guitar pedal. And physics.


Basically yes, but the speaker size is not the issue, but as its good from the pre-amp I would suggest that its something to do with the amp.
What wattage is it? As it has a 15" it must have the power to produce the lows. If its just when you are playing at home, do you have the volume high enough for the amp to kick in the power.
I have a 300W Laney RB8 at low volumes it won't produce the lows because its not using enough power, however when you get to 2 on the dial on gain and volume the 15" makes the floor shake.
Inversely If its in a band situation and you have it cranked too high, because it doesn't have enough power, then the lows can get because they need the most power to generate.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm telling you stuff you already know.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean use the XLR output to get to the amp? I never tried that. The amp isn't in my house, so I can't test it right now.

200 Watts.

The problem is inverse: the louder my amp is, the worse the guitar pedal acts. So yeah, obviously the guitar pedal, but thanks for helping me think of what 'makes it even worse'. The reason I asked about speakers is because I am unsure if part of the reason was that the larger speaker exaggerates the amount of 'drop off in the lows' (compared to using 4x10). I know somebody with the equivalent 4x10 set up, but if it shouldn't make a difference then I don't want to go through the effort of testing it.

The thread isn't about it at all, but I eventually want to get a new amp. I'm still planning to edit that previous post with more info.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:25 PM   #13
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the larger speaker won't exaggerate the drop off, for low end you need to 'move air' and a 15" does that.
Going from the XLR to the amp does the same as going from the jack to the amp.
Theres no harm in trying a different set up. If you just play your bass through the amp is it ok?
If so then its not the amp or speaker, it might just be the combination of everything, but if you loose the low end when you go direct from the bass them you have a problem with the amp. It could be a wiring thing, i'm not an electrician, just that the speaker size doesn't have that effect, or exaggerate sound. It only puts out what you put in, within its abilities, however a 200W with 15" is ample. Several bassists mix a 4x10" with a 1x15" so you get the mix of both, often sending the low end to the 15" and highs and mids to the 10", pearl jam's bassist does this.

If you are after buying a new amp anyway, take your pedal board with you to try it through the amps to see what its like.

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