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Old 12-12-2012, 10:53 PM   #1
crazysam23_Atax
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Record 1 Take for A Stereo Sound?

Is there any way to record just 1 take and get that full stereo sound? I know the standard method is to record two takes, but honestly it'd be easier if I could just record one take and have it come out as a full stereo sound.



I'm using Reaper as my DAW, a Fender Stagemaster guitar (a type of "Super Strat"), and using an Amp Sim and Cab Sim to get distortion.


So, is there some way to record 1 take and still get a full stereo sound?




Thoughts, guys?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:15 PM   #2
jof1029
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theres always the cop out way of just doing a simple time shift. essentially copy the track and move it a few milliseconds. doesnt sound as good as recording the whole thing again though.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jof1029
theres always the cop out way of just doing a simple time shift. essentially copy the track and move it a few milliseconds. doesnt sound as good as recording the whole thing again though.

Ok, how many milliseconds we talking?

Secondly, what about recording the 2nd track (on the same take, of course) with a small amount of delay? I've done some small research, and found out that, if you delay the 2nd track by 5-15ms, then it fattens up the sound a bit. Would you think this would work? I'd just use ReaDelay for this, btw.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 12-12-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:35 PM   #4
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thats pretty much exactly the same thing, just doing it a different way. time shifting is introducing a delay. so yes, that would work.

i still dont think it really sounds as good as recording two takes, but its better than nothing.

also, with duplicating the track, you can use a different amp sim. it can fatten the sound if you pick a sim of an amp that compliments the one on your main track.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:41 PM   #5
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I've read on an article on this page (yeah, some articles here are worth reading...) that if you use an interface or something, and a multi effects or something that has R and L outs, you can get 2 tracks on one take...

i don't know exactly how to do that, because i''ve never tried it myself, but i was planning to do that but using a microphone at the speaker to one interface in, and the Left Out of my Digitech to the other channel, on the same interface...

if somebody has tried something like that, please let me know if it worked...
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jof1029
thats pretty much exactly the same thing, just doing it a different way. time shifting is introducing a delay. so yes, that would work.

i still dont think it really sounds as good as recording two takes, but its better than nothing.


Well, yeah...but I'd at least like to try it. I've a track saved on my Soundcloud that was recorded the guitars L & R each as a separate take. So, I figured I'd compare that to this new method. If it's not too huge of a difference in sound quality, I may stick with using delay.

Quote:
also, with duplicating the track, you can use a different amp sim. it can fatten the sound if you pick a sim of an amp that compliments the one on your main track.
Huh, that's a decent idea. I've an Amp Sim that may just do the trick too.


Let me try both of these things and report back.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbert
I've read on an article on this page (yeah, some articles here are worth reading...) that if you use an interface or something, and a multi effects or something that has R and L outs, you can get 2 tracks on one take...

i don't know exactly how to do that, because i''ve never tried it myself, but i was planning to do that but using a microphone at the speaker to one interface in, and the Left Out of my Digitech to the other channel, on the same interface...

if somebody has tried something like that, please let me know if it worked...

Well, this is a decent idea, except I'm using an Amp Sim, rather than an actual Amp. I have a physical amp, obviously; it's just that my amp's line out jack isn't the greatest. I may try using my Amp for one track and an Amp Sim for the other though. Might as well experiment a bit, right?
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 12-13-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:50 AM   #7
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Ok, results.

Did one take, which happened to be on the left-panned track. I delayed the right-panned track (which was copied from the left and then reversed) by 15ms. I then added a band on the left's EQ at 5k (set at -4.0 gain) and a band on right's EQ at 5k (set at 4.0 gain).

So, if you wouldn't mind comparing these two below renderings. The 1st is basically what I described above (1 take total). The 2nd was done by recording the left and then the right (so, two takes total).

1 Take

2 Takes

They're both parsing in stereo.


Edit:
If anyone is interested, here's how the "1 Take" track sounds with Bass parts added. The Bass is simple minor scale riffing (just because I thought it sounded cool).

"1 Take" w/ Bass
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 12-13-2012 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:54 AM   #8
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The problem with time-shifting, is that it introduces a panning effect (even if it's very subtle) in the listener's mind - your brain automatically pans stuff for you when you hear something, based on the time difference between sound reaching one ear before the other (think about how you can locate where a sound is coming from, even with your eyes closed to prevent any visual cue). In fact, using time-delays when mixing is actually a good way of adding a more definite location in the stereo field to your panning, and works much better for headphone listeners than panning with the DAW's pan pot (which can sound unnaturally wide with headphones, due to the isolated left and right channels).


I'd liken it to this though - pretty much everything in audio engineering is about weighing up the pros and cons of each decision, before making it. You may think that saving yourself the time of recording something twice is a good idea, but then you have to make the decision about how you're going to get that stereo effect and how you're going to give it that humanised feel.

I doubt it exists, but I would argue that the best way to simulate double-tracking would be to program some kind of plug-in (could probably do it in Max For Live in Ableton Live) that automates, with randomised and flowing variations, changes in time-delay/phase-shifting, pitch and EQ - with the right balance of minimum and maximum parameters I can imagine that being infinitely more realistic than copying the track, and delaying it by a few ms.

That being said, there are people out there who double vocals using the method of a repetition panned the opposite way with a time difference. Which brings me to this point... as there are no rules with recording and mixing, feel free to experiment with delays and the like to see what you can create that might add something cool to a mix. A while back I went through a phase of using Logic's Delay Designer on vocals, and whenever I wanted something climatic at the end of a line, I would trial a delay preset I made where it would have a few repetitions very suddenly (i.e faster than a slapback delay) which were panned gradually more and more to each side in turn, but lowering in volume, and this gave a pretty cool widening/'expanding' effect to the last syllable
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:16 PM   #9
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Well, I guess to me, having just listened to the two files I posted with headphones on, I can tell a tiny bit of difference between the two sound-wise. But really, it's not enough to where I think most people will go, "This just sounds off". The main thing, for me, was getting a stereo sound here without sacrificing quality, which I achieved I think.

When I've a better PC and better Equipment, I'm sure I'll really get down to the science of fine-tuning things. For now, I'm just looking to release a demo; I just want a decent, simple mix that fits my style of playing/songwriting.


Another thing too, for me, is this isn't an entire song. I'd definitely enjoy critiques of the quality when I post an entire song in "Original Recordings". I sort of figure that this all is a learning process, and I have time to learn here.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #10
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Honestly, the one with two takes sounds better. The one with the shifted one take just sounds off. I can tell it was delayed, and is kind of disconcerting. If you're just where you're at now, just making your own recordings that aren't serious, it's not the end of the world if you use a shortcut like this. For demo recordings I frequently use just one mono track down center. But trust me when I say that it's always better to use two tracks. It'll sound more like two people playing, because it is.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #11
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Just play the riff twice in one take, then chop the clip in half and align them both.

If you can't do that, then you can't play in time, and there's bigger issues here, cause I really don't know how its so much harder to do an extra take, if you can play correctly to a metronome.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinginbatman
Honestly, the one with two takes sounds better. The one with the shifted one take just sounds off.

What if I shifted it a little less? Maybe instead of using 15ms, use say 7ms? Would that make it less noticeable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixClaw
Just play the riff twice in one take, then chop the clip in half and align them both.

If you can't do that, then you can't play in time, and there's bigger issues here, cause I really don't know how its so much harder to do an extra take, if you can play correctly to a metronome.

Playing it twice in one clip, chopping it, and then reversing the stereo?...Ok, that makes sense.

The issue isn't that I can't play 2 takes. It's that I'm too lazy to do it for a few very early demo songs.

As I gain more experience, I intend to do it by recording 2 takes.


Also, this experimentation in and of itself is useful.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:43 PM   #13
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And see, there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps maybe if it were shifted less it'd be better, but I'm not entirely sure. Just mess with it.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinginbatman
And see, there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps maybe if it were shifted less it'd be better, but I'm not entirely sure. Just mess with it.

Well, here it is shifted by 7ms.
Shift of 7ms


Here's the old 15ms shift.
Shift of 15ms

Better?
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