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Old 12-14-2012, 04:36 PM   #41
LostLegion
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I'm not really educated on this subject but I'll just put my ignorance here anyway. Civilian use of guns are generally used for two purposes: self defence and hunting. Is there really a need to have them for anything else? Like I wouldn't really sell a gun to a guy who is just obsessed with guns and just shooting them down at the range. Would he not kinda do something more productive? I don't even know why some types of guns are even up for civilian sale. Like automatic weapons, pistols etc. For hunting all you would really need is a rifle or a shotgun depending on what type of hunting you do. And a revolver would be all you really need for self-defence use. Those automatic weapons and snipers with a range of two miles or whatever should only be for military use.

And on a slightly unrelated topic I think bowhunting should be legalised.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:36 PM   #42
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I'm definitely blaming the media here. Look at any news site or channel. This shit is plastered all over the front page. They LOVE it. And they will cover every inch it ad nauseum.

Imagine if someone robbed a major bank and the media covered EXACTLY how he did it. Hundreds of bank robbers will be taking note.

Same shit here. The news just inspire the psychopaths for next week.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:37 PM   #43
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Firearms have been confiscated from victims of genocide before. In Germany especially, the Jews were such a minority it wouldn't have made any difference.

Germans never thought that that would happen in their country. Then it did. If guns are banned, they can just as easily do the same to us.

The Japanese had planned to invade the U.S.. They decided not to after one of the generals stated "there is a gun behind of every blade of grass."

Guns don't need to be for sports or hunting. It's to prevent tyranny in the government.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:37 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Carnivean
I think we can all establish that GUNS are not the sole reason these killings have been happening. There's something else to it.


Sounds like an excellent start of a South Park episode that would blame the school shootings on some absolutely absurd reason instead of one of the main problems with it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Carnivean
I think we can all establish that GUNS are not the sole reason these killings have been happening. There's something else to it.


Lax gun control clearly exacerbates the problem in the US though, given that the US shares most of its culture with UK and yet has a much higher rate of gun-related homicide.

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Germans never thought that that would happen in their country. Then it did. If guns are banned, they can just as easily do the same to us.

The Japanese had planned to invade the U.S.. They decided not to after one of the generals stated "there is a gun behind of every blade of grass."

Guns don't need to be for sports or hunting. It's to prevent tyranny in the government.


You're either paranoid or a ******.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #46
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Yes, but it's a lot harder for the average Joe. The people who are responsible for these massacres are rarely people that are deep down into criminality and rough neighbourhoods.

These people would have a much harder time aquiring a gun if they wanted to carry out the murders.


What happens when that Average Joe finally does get his hands on that gun? What if he makes it a point to kill as many people as he can with that gun? What if he compensates? What if the average number of victims in each shooting go up because of this?
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #47
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If this guy hadn't had a gun, there's no way in hell he would have killed 26 people. It was a gun that enabled him to kill that many people. Considering that information about him is extremely limited, I won't say anything about the shooter's mental state. What I can say is that if he didn't own a gun, killing that many people would have been a damn sight more difficult.


Tim McVeigh used a ryder truck. The gun is just a tool for a crazy person. Remove the tool and they can't commit the crime right???? Don't know if anyone owns a tool box but I'll bet there's more than one thing in there. Just my thoughts.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #48
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The whole "we need guns in case we want to overthrow our government" argument is too ******ed for words.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Geldin
If this guy hadn't had a gun, there's no way in hell he would have killed 26 people. It was a gun that enabled him to kill that many people. Considering that information about him is extremely limited, I won't say anything about the shooter's mental state. What I can say is that if he didn't own a gun, killing that many people would have been a damn sight more difficult.


I agree with you. But maybe he would have been willing to go and get a gun illegally, which would be a possibility if gun control laws were enacted, he would have still done it whether guns are legal for people like him or not.

It's certainly not as simple as "ban guns and it's all good"
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Todd Hart
Lax gun control clearly exacerbates the problem in the US though, given that the US shares most of its culture with UK and yet has a much higher rate of gun-related homicide.
Comparing gun-deaths in the US and UK is pointless.

Compare the murder rates.

(it's still higher in the US)
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:40 PM   #51
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You're either paranoid or a ******.

Nope, I just want to be sure that I'm never killed by my government. The one that makes great decisions and loves us all so much.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:41 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by bradulator
I agree with you. But maybe he would have been willing to go and get a gun illegally, which would be a possibility if gun control laws were enacted, he would have still done it whether guns are legal for people like him or not.

It's certainly not as simple as "ban guns and it's all good"

No but the aim for banning guns is to reduce these possibilities. Nothing is certain in this universe but possibilities can be influenced.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:41 PM   #53
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I'm definitely blaming the media here. Look at any news site or channel. This shit is plastered all over the front page. They LOVE it. And they will cover every inch it ad nauseum.

Imagine if someone robbed a major bank and the media covered EXACTLY how he did it. Hundreds of bank robbers will be taking note.

Same shit here. The news just inspire the psychopaths for next week.

Yep, it's more personal since it involved kids so more page views, so more ad revenue, so more $$$$
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Carnivean
What happens when that Average Joe finally does get his hands on that gun? What if he makes it a point to kill as many people as he can with that gun? What if he compensates? What if the average number of victims in each shooting go up because of this?

How many times has the shooter in a mass shooting actually been killed by some gun owning citizens in the crowd of people?

I can't really ever remember that happening. It's usually that he kills himself, the police kill him, or the police arrest him.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Carnivean
What happens when that Average Joe finally does get his hands on that gun? What if he makes it a point to kill as many people as he can with that gun? What if he compensates? What if the average number of victims in each shooting go up because of this?


Why would they?

What happens when the Average Joe finds a gun? Well, the possibility for a massacre is all of a sudden made so much easier. When was the last time the through-and-through criminal gangs went to a school/mall and killed 20+ people.

When innocents in the eye of everyone else (the objective crowd) are killed it's almost always some personal issues such as revenge etc involved. And that is almost always done by a random lunatic who could've easily been stopped if he didn't have a gun.

Breivik in Norway on the other hand planned what he did for years, he knew exactly what he was doing and that was not a spur of the moment thingy. I honestly however believe that a lot of these personal issues/revenge/bullied pupil coming back could be stopped by a stricter gun control.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by element4433
Comparing gun-deaths in the US and UK is pointless.

Compare the murder rates.

(it's still higher in the US)



Well that proves my point then, that guns are causing a lot of problems in the US.

And the point of comparing gun-deaths is to disprove the stupid 'Increasing gun control won't help because people can still get them' argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCPhils
How many times has the shooter in a mass shooting actually been killed by some gun owning citizens in the crowd of people?

I can't really ever remember that happening. It's usually that he kills himself, the police kill him, or the police arrest him.


Further to this point, do you really want to be caught in the crossfire between two people with no training in firearm use. I'd much rather one person shooting and the rest of us running the **** away than some ****** trying to play the hero.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by jonathan666666
Nope, I just want to be sure that I'm never killed by my government. The one that makes great decisions and loves us all so much.

Ask David Koresh how that logic worked out for him.

If the government wants to kill you (side note - the government doesn't want to kill you) an entire stockpile of weapons isn't going to help you, let alone a pistol.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:44 PM   #58
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Well, I personally believe that it should be harder to obtain any sort of firearm. If they were all out right banned, I think that would increase these kinds of crimes/tragedies (a la alcohol prohibition increasing crime and what not).
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:44 PM   #59
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Well that proves my point then, that guns are causing a lot of problems in the US.

And the point of comparing gun-deaths is to disprove the stupid 'Increasing gun control won't help because people can still get them' argument.
It's not guns though.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:45 PM   #60
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Well that proves my point then, that guns are causing a lot of problems in the US.

And the point of comparing gun-deaths is to disprove the stupid 'Increasing gun control won't help because people can still get them' argument.

And just to let you know, in Mexico, it's a lot harder to obtain a gun legally. And yet these cities near the US border have higher shooting fatalities. Gee, I wonder why....
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