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Old 12-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #1
karstaag666
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Evolution of 'The Scene'

Dissect and debate at your own pleasure...

As a aspiring musician looking to make an impact on the scene eventually with one (of the many) of my projects I have and will work on, I spend most of the little free time I get on analysing and dissecting the music scene. It is a necessity since knowing where 'the scene' is going gives you an idea on what is selling, is going to sell, and what is potentially a dead project. Having spent a decade listening and researching music both current and past, I believe I have developed a sort of insight into many of the aspects and reasons on the evolution of the scene. Much of which is still a mystery to me.

I recently watched a interview featuring Black Veil Brides on Scuzz TV. Now I am neither a fan nor a hater. Whether they're shit or not doesn't benefit in analysing the scene. Listening to their music I can hear the immediate influence of Metal. They sound VERY similar to Trivium and Bullet For My Valentine. This is mixed with 80's style ballad choruses, Motley Cre being a prime influence on the vocal lines. So here is the approach to getting the 'signature sound' to identify the band. Their appearance is very Motley Cre, it is reworked into again, their own 'signature' appearance.
Now why am I mentioning this band? The music industry thrives off the youth, it's where arguably that bands make most their money. BvB seem like one of the current band 'on the scene'.
Now, what is making them sell? My theory stems from the belief that 80's is coming into fashion again. We have bands really stepping onto the scene such as Reckless Love, Crashdiet, Jettblack, The Treatment, Heavens Basement, etc. What all of these bands are bringing is reworked influences of 80's rock music from bands such as Aerosmith, Def Leppard, Motley Cre, etc. This theory is also evident in the pop genre, Lady GaGa for example puts on Motley Cre like shows with other 80's glam influence.

This is ofc only a section of the industry, it's much too vast to analyse as a whole without writing a book. What do you think though about 80's coming back in fashion? Do you agree? Do you love/hate it?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:36 PM   #2
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You're so boring
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #3
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Great intellectual response there. You will become the next Einstein with that creative thinking.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by karstaag666
Great intellectual response there. You will become the next Einstein with that creative thinking.

You're talking about the "scene" and the 80's glam pop influence on said "scene". Also, you spend all your free time "analyzing" the scene when you should just be making music to appease the creative side that lies within you, which I'm imagining is incredibly small. How the fuck are you supposed to "intellectually" discuss a marketing ploy? The glam rock/pop scene had very little, if any, intellectual influence.

And thank you, I'm kind of putting all of my resources into that dream. Because if there's one thing that makes people who don't know physics feel better, it's being able to cite Einstein. So I hope you're feeling smug right now. Let it be my holiday gift to you.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:57 PM   #5
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This ain't a scene it's a goddamn arms race.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:02 PM   #6
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Whole argument fell through when you said BFMV were metal.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK202
You're talking about the "scene" and the 80's glam pop influence on said "scene". Also, you spend all your free time "analyzing" the scene when you should just be making music to appease the creative side that lies within you, which I'm imagining is incredibly small. How the fuck are you supposed to "intellectually" discuss a marketing ploy? The glam rock/pop scene had very little, if any, intellectual influence.

And thank you, I'm kind of putting all of my resources into that dream. Because if there's one thing that makes people who don't know physics feel better, it's being able to cite Einstein. So I hope you're feeling smug right now. Let it be my holiday gift to you.


I spend what little free time analysing the scene when I'm not working with/on various music projects. I spend around 80% of my time composing/rehearsing/performing. As for making music that appeases me, I love making kick-ass songs, since my taste in music isn't limited it gives me the luxury of appeasing myself no matter what genre I'm writing in.

Ok, I'll give you some help here in how to debate since you seem to lack some fundamental understanding on this. I take it you disagree with 80's influence on the current scene. There you go that is your statement. You claim it is a marketing ploy with little intellectual influence. There is your reasoning. Congratulations, you successfully joined a debate.

Record labels and artists/bands, are notoriously known for following trends of popularity. When something starts becoming big they all jump on the bandwagon. Take Dubstep for example, how many bands jumped on that wagon?
Now whether the reintroduction of 80's style glam is a marketing ploy or not, it is certainly having a major effect on the industry.
Take a look at the other side of the musical world, the pop industry. Lady GaGa says in a interview she likes 80's rock, makes her shows in that style, gets the darkness as support. All of a sudden about 10 other big artists in pop claim they love rock, some even take it too far (lil' wayne's horrendous guitar solos).

In the rock/metal side of the industry, take a look at what bands are being pushed into the limelight. Black Veil Brides winning awards such as 'best breakthrough act'. I wouldn't be surprised if their next album tops the rock charts. They're certainly the most promising band atm in terms of profitability, especially with how 'die-hard' their fans are claimed to be.
I was talking with the manager of one of the bands I mentioned in my OP and with a US based event organiser. They were certainly under the perception that 80's glam is becoming the hit thing again. They mentioned that they're working on getting bands like The Treatment, Jettblack, Night by Night, into America to start making an impact.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Whole argument fell through when you said BFMV were metal.


Is this a case of childish "I don't like said band therefore they're not part of the genre I typically like"?
I don't particularly like their music either but they most definately are a sub-genre of metal.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #9
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I try and distance myself from people who talk about the "music industry" as much as possible. To double that, you seem like a tremendous cunt. Yes, music with widespread popularity influences other music/business strategies. It's not really a debate when there's really only one side to argue.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:32 PM   #10
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There is more to debate if you knew more about the subject.
Instead you came in a negative fashion simply because someone has a different interest than you? And you call me the ****?
If your interest was pink fluffy unicorns and you were talking about it I wouldn't just come in guns blazing just because I am not interested in them. It's disrespectful, narrowminded, and says a significant amount about your character.

In fact, to quote Plato;
* * *
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstaag666
Is this a case of childish "I don't like said band therefore they're not part of the genre I typically like"?
I don't particularly like their music either but they most definately are a sub-genre of metal.


I'd honestly argue that they're a modern rock band. Pedal riffs aren't exclusively a metal thing. And I like the first BFMV album, it's a nostalgic throwback to me, so it's not that I hate the band (I can't stand their more recent output but that's a different matter). The thing is you say BVB are "metal" by comparing it to a band that is only "metal" by a large proxy. Which doesn't actually make them "metal".

It's like saying Squash is fruit juice because it's yellow like orange juice and that yellow paint is also fruit juice because it's yellow like squash... and thus fruit juice, you dig? You're moving further away from the source whilst still claiming direct relation to it.

Also this entire thread seems to serves only to make you come across tremendously obnoxious and patronizing (even if you aren't, but srsly, who the fuq quotes Plato unless they want to flex some Intellectual boner, I'm sure plenty more people than you have read bits of Republic). Just saying. No one really cares because BvB is terrible. They're NOT popular because of their music, which is the assumption you seem to be laboring on. They're popular because they've managed to market them selves perfectly to a naive audience (young "alternative" teens.)
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Last edited by ChemicalFire : 12-25-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karstaag666
There is more to debate if you knew more about the subject.
Instead you came in a negative fashion simply because someone has a different interest than you? And you call me the ****?
If your interest was pink fluffy unicorns and you were talking about it I wouldn't just come in guns blazing just because I am not interested in them. It's disrespectful, narrowminded, and says a significant amount about your character.


I never said I was a good dude, anyone who knows a bunch about the music industry is a massively boring cunt and has no artistic credibility. Good character is stupid, smash a mic stand into yr head, etc, etc


EDIT: You should also reevaluate your concept of being wise, because you've just basically been responding to people who don't give two fucks about your "debate" instead of just ignoring it. Blah I could ignore your thread too blah blah blah blah but I don't roll like that, motherfucker. Art is dead//kill your face//waste time with internet personas that are just being dicks on purpose//etc//etc//etc
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Last edited by BK202 : 12-25-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
I'd honestly argue that they're a modern rock band. Pedal riffs aren't exclusively a metal thing. And I like the first BFMV album, it's a nostalgic throwback to me, so it's not that I hate the band (I can't stand their more recent output but that's a different matter). The thing is you say BVB are "metal" by comparing it to a band that is only "metal" by a large proxy. Which doesn't actually make them "metal".

It's like saying Squash is fruit juice because it's yellow like orange juice and that yellow paint is also fruit juice because it's yellow like squash... and thus fruit juice, you dig? You're moving further away from the source whilst still claiming direct relation to it.

Also this entire thread seems to serves only to make you come across tremendously obnoxious and patronizing (even if you aren't, but srsly, who the fuq quotes Plato unless they want to flex some Intellectual boner, I'm sure plenty more people than you have read bits of Republic). Just saying. No one really cares because BvB is terrible. They're NOT popular because of their music, which is the assumption you seem to be laboring on. They're popular because they've managed to market them selves perfectly to a naive audience (young "alternative" teens.)


Cheers for the constructive post. I was giving up hope!

When it comes to placing a band in a genre there will always be debate. I didn't really want to focus on the genres of the bands myself. The reason I compare BvB with BFMV and Trivium though is due to me hearing BvB for the first time and being reminded of the other 2 bands. The riffs and drumbeats of the song I was listening to were incredibly similar. It would also explain BvB's influences since if I remember rightly, Trivium and BFMV became the new breakthrough bands around 2005/2006 the same time BvB formed.

Yeh my typing always does come across like that. I find it difficult approaching such a varied audience considering the topic and how technical it can get. Although with the other guy on the thread I am being mean to, he just cheesed me off.

I agree that BvB's success is questionable on whether it's their signature brand that sells or the music. From what I have read from people's opinions online though is a lot of people who do like the music often mention the Motley Cre like choruses such as that fallen angels song. Then another reason (often comments made by younger audiences) is the topic of the lyrics and how they relate to it. Although marketing has a hell of a lot to do with it, the way they are being marketed is in a 80's fashion..
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK202
I never said I was a good dude, anyone who knows a bunch about the music industry is a massively boring cunt and has no artistic credibility. Good character is stupid, smash a mic stand into yr head, etc, etc


EDIT: You should also reevaluate your concept of being wise, because you've just basically been responding to people who don't give two fucks about your "debate" instead of just ignoring it. Blah I could ignore your thread too blah blah blah blah but I don't roll like that, motherfucker. Art is dead//kill your face//waste time with internet personas that are just being dicks on purpose//etc//etc//etc


So I guess you only like unsigned, unknown bands? Since any that are making a career out of their music will know a great deal about the industry they are working in.
I don't recommend self harm btw.

As for being wise, I just drew blood from a stone to serve the purpose I desired. Think over that
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