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Old 12-25-2012, 10:22 PM   #41
LP1951
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Originally Posted by Blompcube
this.

i must admit i do want a CV '50s tele. Because i just like the CV '50s tele spec better than anything fender makes that isn't an AVRI, honestly. but i think the hype about them supposedly being better than MIMs is actually stopping me from buying one - let me explain:

I have plenty of MIMs to compare the CVs to. If the CVs are as good as people say they are, why is it that every time i go and try one i end up thinking the one i get to play must be one of the crap ones? Even if i end up kinda liking it, i think "well, these are supposed to be better than MIMs, and this one just isn't, so i'll pass, and wait until i find a better one". But a better one just never comes along.

Have i just been exceedingly unlucky and found nothing but crap compared to what all the guys talking about how awesome the CVs are have found? or have those guys just dropped lucky on an occasional good one?

or, taking luck out of the equation, are these guitars just overrated?


+1

I just don't get the hype about CVs either, never played one that I liked.

I once watched a blind test of a CV and a MIA Tele Standard. The guy who posted it was raving about how you could not hear a difference. Well I could tell the difference in less than 30 seconds. The CV pups sounded thin and weak, but there were still a bunch of cv owners swearing that the CV sounded just as good or better. A beautiful sound only in the ear of the beholder.
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Last edited by LP1951 : 12-25-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:44 PM   #42
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I think CVs are pretty awesome for what they cost. A sub $300 guitar usually isn't that good. An and MIM strat that costs $450 comes with far worse pickups(ceramic? Really Fender?). But buying a used MIm for $300 or less and putting in better pickups is a better route than getting a CV, imo.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
For example: an Ibanez RG321 looks like it has much the same spec sheet as my RG1527 aside from the really obvious things like pickups and tremolo... but it wouldn't feel the same. At all.

Kyto's RG321 gives this a big +1
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Blompcube
this.

i must admit i do want a CV '50s tele. Because i just like the CV '50s tele spec better than anything fender makes that isn't an AVRI, honestly. but i think the hype about them supposedly being better than MIMs is actually stopping me from buying one - let me explain:

I have plenty of MIMs to compare the CVs to. If the CVs are as good as people say they are, why is it that every time i go and try one i end up thinking the one i get to play must be one of the crap ones? Even if i end up kinda liking it, i think "well, these are supposed to be better than MIMs, and this one just isn't, so i'll pass, and wait until i find a better one". But a better one just never comes along.

Have i just been exceedingly unlucky and found nothing but crap compared to what all the guys talking about how awesome the CVs are have found? or have those guys just dropped lucky on an occasional good one?

or, taking luck out of the equation, are these guitars just overrated?

Maybe bad set ups, but most likely your expectations are too high.

I like Squiers. I think they're a damn good bang for your buck. If I had the choice between a CV Squier or a nice Fender, I have no idea which I would choose.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:13 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by JustRooster
I would take an MIM over a CV every day all day. You guys are nuts.


I can live with being nuts, I don't play the logo.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:15 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Arby911
I can live with being nuts, I don't play the logo.


If loving Squiers is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:21 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by peskypesky
If loving Squiers is wrong, I don't want to be right.


I neither love nor hate them, just know that they are often far better than they are given credit for.

I'd love to strip the headstock on a half dozen CV's and MIM's and do a blind test, I'd say the results would be interesting...

There's a lot of opinionated bullshit masquerading as fact in the posts above.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
I can live with being nuts, I don't play the logo.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that he's probably not talking about the logo.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:26 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that he's probably not talking about the logo.


Headstock Blindness is a more common ailment than you might think.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:36 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Headstock Blindness is a more common ailment than you might think.

True, but then so is rationalizing a purchase, hating on what you can't afford, and judging all guitars based on a few exceptions.

I'm not saying you're doing that, but we are basically forced to give the benefit of the doubt here, unless we require that everyone with a particular opinion on a brand or guitar line list their qualifications to judge said guitars, and then those qualifications would have to be weighed against some sort of standard.

Basically, you can't just assume that he's basing his opinion off the logo. You need some sort of justification to assume such a thing.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:28 AM   #51
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Agree with W4RP1G

CV Squiers are good, FOR THE ASKING PRICE. But, to say they best MIM, or Am Standards is plain silly.

They look and feel like toys. Their only saving grace, in some cases, is the pickups.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:56 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MegadethFan18
Oh that's what you're getting at. Yeah materials and good construction go hand in hand. Though If I bought a guitar that had a disabling fault I would just return it. Certain things are lost on me, I can't hear a guitar and know "That is an X piece body" so I don't need a one piece body (and I doubt I ever will) but it is a premium.


... You're still not getting it.

I'm not talking about parts or materials or sound or anything like that. I'm talking about the way it feels in your hands; once you've got a decent amount of experience with a wide range of gear you can tell when something is well made by holding it and playing it for a while. It's not just about whether there's anything wrong with it but how right it is as well.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:30 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
I neither love nor hate them, just know that they are often far better than they are given credit for.

I'd love to strip the headstock on a half dozen CV's and MIM's and do a blind test, I'd say the results would be interesting...

There's a lot of opinionated bullshit masquerading as fact in the posts above.




You're gear list pretty much tells me everything I need to know about how to weigh your opinion. I'm taking off from this thread, have a good one.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #54
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There apparently seems to be some circular reasoning around here. Your opinion will not be taken seriously by certain people unless you have expensive gear. No matter how good a guitar player you are, no matter how many years or decades you've been playing, no matter how good your guitars play and sound and look.

You can be a crappy guitar player, but if you have an expensive guitar, then your opinion carries weight.

Sad, really.

Last edited by peskypesky : 12-26-2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:41 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by peskypesky
There apparently seems to be some circular reasoning around here. Your opinion will not be taken seriously by certain people unless you have expensive gear. No matter how good a guitar player you are, no matter how many years or decades you've been playing, no matter how good your guitars play and sound and look.

You can be a crappy guitar player, but if you have an expensive guitar, then your opinion carries weight.

Sad, really.


I agree pesky...this is what I have noticed while following this thread. I recently purchased a CVC Tele and so far I love it. It looks a lot like the MIA Tele I had in high school 28 years ago. I really liked my old MIA Tele and I really like this one but I can't tell you if one is any better than the other because it has been far too long. However, none of that really matters because when you boil it all down all that matters is if the guitar feels good in the players hand and in the players ear. Would I be happier with a $1500 MIA Tele? Maybe, maybe not. All I CAN tell you is I am quite happy with one I paid $375 for.

BTW my Tele is the 3 tone sunburst one with double binding and rosewood fretboard. It also came with a 3-ply pick guard and Alnico V's.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Alucard817
Maybe bad set ups, but most likely your expectations are too high.

i'm expecting a guitar that's at least as good quality as a MIM fender, because that's what everyone tells me to expect.

are my expectations really too high?
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peskypesky
There apparently seems to be some circular reasoning around here. Your opinion will not be taken seriously by certain people unless you have expensive gear. No matter how good a guitar player you are, no matter how many years or decades you've been playing, no matter how good your guitars play and sound and look.

You can be a crappy guitar player, but if you have an expensive guitar, then your opinion carries weight.

Sad, really.


I haven't gotten that impression. People don't agree with you, that doesn't mean your opinion isn't valid. When people have a certain opinion you may look for the reason behind it.

In this case it seems those with loads of Squiers are claiming that they are the equivalent of the more expensive, quality products.

But those who owned Squiers or lower quality guitars including ones very similar to CVs and held a MiM or MIA in their arms and knew the difference in quality was obvious are a little bit confused by people comparing guitars you get in starter packs to ones that cost £500+.

In a lot of cases people will defend the gear they have because an attack on that property is like an attack on them, and people who spent a lot of money on something will defend it because they spent so much cash on it.

That being said, if you've gone through a cycle of low end tier gear and are now on high end gear you know why certain products are more appealing to you. The build, the tone etc, but if all you've had are Squiers and have only spent a little bit of time with a MIA or a MiM (10 mins in a shop doesn't count, you are used to your guitar, new ones feel alien) then your opinion isn't as much about experience as it seems to be an emotional response that might seem to be based on justification. But then again, if a product doesn't grab you why would you buy it? But then you still haven't really experienced the product.

What I'm wondering about is what is it about the higher end models that bring them down to the fret work, trem, pickups, etc of the Squiers? From my experience the CV are okay, they aren't as good as the MiM but with some work you can bridge the gap a bit but the trem will put you out of tune quite quickly. You might get a CV with great fretwork and a MiM with poor fretwork, bit if you spend some time of the MiM you'll usually be on top.

TL;DR.

What is it for you that brings the supposed quality of the MiM down to the starter, low end tier of guitars that the CV are? Because I don't see it.
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Last edited by Mephaphil : 12-26-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:29 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peskypesky
There apparently seems to be some circular reasoning around here. Your opinion will not be taken seriously by certain people unless you have expensive gear. No matter how good a guitar player you are, no matter how many years or decades you've been playing, no matter how good your guitars play and sound and look.

You can be a crappy guitar player, but if you have an expensive guitar, then your opinion carries weight.

Sad, really.



That's not what I was saying at all. I don't have really expensive gear. I was making a point about ownership bias.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephaphil
I haven't gotten that impression. People don't agree with you, that doesn't mean your opinion isn't valid. When people have a certain opinion you may look for the reason behind it.

In this case it seems those with loads of Squiers are claiming that they are the equivalent of the more expensive, quality products.

But those who owned Squiers or lower quality guitars including ones very similar to CVs and held a MiM or MIA in their arms and knew the difference in quality was obvious are a little bit confused by people comparing guitars you get in starter packs to ones that cost £500+.

In a lot of cases people will defend the gear they have because an attack on that property is like an attack on them, and people who spent a lot of money on something will defend it because they spent so much cash on it.

That being said, if you've gone through a cycle of low end tier gear and are now on high end gear you know why certain products are more appealing to you. The build, the tone etc, but if all you've had are Squiers and have only spent a little bit of time with a MIA or a MiM (10 mins in a shop doesn't count, you are used to your guitar, new ones feel alien) then your opinion isn't as much about experience as it seems to be an emotional response that might seem to be based on justification. But then again, if a product doesn't grab you why would you buy it? But then you still haven't really experienced the product.

What I'm wondering about is what is it about the higher end models that bring them down to the fret work, trem, pickups, etc of the Squiers? From my experience the CV are okay, they aren't as good as the MiM but with some work you can bridge the gap a bit but the trem will put you out of tune quite quickly. You might get a CV with great fretwork and a MiM with poor fretwork, bit if you spend some time of the MiM you'll usually be on top.

TL;DR.

What is it for you that brings the supposed quality of the MiM down to the starter, low end tier of guitars that the CV are? Because I don't see it.



Well Stated!
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:51 PM   #60
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None of that is correct. Fender switched to ash not alder because it was a much better grade of wood than pine.


Actually, Fender switched to Ash from Pine because it was (at the time) tonally similar and cheaper. However, Ash is a pretty inconsistent timber and can vary from very, very dense to very, very light, depending on how much water the tree received and which part of the tree was used. In truth, most 50s Fenders weren't consistently made with same type of wood, instead were created from pieces of wood handpicked from a mix of timbers, including Ash, Alder and Pine. During the 60s, Alder became the primary body wood (because of price) for Telecasters and Stratocasters, first introduced for sunburst strats, with Ash being reserved mostly for sunburst Telecasters. Other woods used by Fender guitar bodies include Mahogany, Rosewood, Hackberry Wood and Walnut (all four of which where used almost exclusively in the seventies and eighties)
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