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Old 12-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #21
HotspurJr
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
It's not that I don't think Page/Clapton/EVH as decent guitar players, but it's laughable to call them virtuosos.


It's not often that I feel like saying this, but ...

... kids these days.

I guess you're not that familiar with Cream, with what rock music sounded like before them compared to after them. And ditto for Led Zeppelin. I've never been a huge EVH fan but it's impossible to deny the influence he had on basically all rock musicians. He set the stage for guys like Vai and Satriani who then set the stage for the kind of wanking that all the -core guitarists love so much.

"Virtuoso" doesn't mean "plays a gazillion notes a second," you know, although, of course, before our current speed-obsessed age Clapton, Page, and EVH were some of the fastest players around.

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It really has nothing to do with a lack of imagination it has to do with overall control of dynamics and density in a way that can't be reconciled if you don't have another guitar player.


Yes. Exactly. That's exactly the point. You're really just not getting it.

You can not have two guitars sound like one guitar.

So instead you USE YOUR IMAGINATION to think of ways that you can get a full, hard-driving sound with the instruments you have.

Your problem is that you're defining the genre box you're in so narrowly that it's turned into a straightjacket. "We're post-hardcore, we have to be exactly like this!" but how on earth do you think that these little microgenres got started?

Somebody said, "Oh, well, we're like blues, but we play with electric guitars:" Rock 'n'roll. "We're like rock, but we barely know how to play and get by on attitude:" punk. "We're like punk, but we create a wall of sound:" hardcore.

If the early punks had said, "Oh, jeeze, we want to make music but we don't fit into the rock'n'roll box, so I guess we can't really do it until we actually get as good as Jimmy Page on guitar" then punk rock would never have happened. It happened because a bunch of people said, "To hell with this dumb restriction that guitarists have to be awesome. We're just going to thrash away" and a new genre was born.

So, similarly, you can either be a slave to whatever silly arbitrary definitions there are of "post-hardcore" (which is as silly sounding a genre name as I've ever heard) and be miserable because you can't fit them ...

... or you can use what you have and use your imagination to create music that you love.

Two guitars give you options that one guitar doesn't. On the other hand, one guitar gives you options that two guitars don't, unless you're going to sit there and have one guitarist sit on the side of the stage with his thumb up his butt. Having a guitarist who's going to insist on playing almost all of the time is as big a restriction as not, you know?
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:16 PM   #22
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Ya I definitely don't know anything about Cream or Zeppelin. I'm also 14 and love metalcore.

And you're misinterpreting my argument. I'm not saying that you can't manage with one guitar player, but if you have the ability to introduce a second and it's a style of music that really calls for it, then by all means you should probably maximize your ability to have a more versatile instrumentation.

I strongly disagree with your comments on two guitar players not being able to function as one.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-26-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:04 PM   #23
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i didn't read much of this but if you think taking back sunday is post-hardcore you're doing it really, really wrong

also, veil of maya has 1 guitarist. he uses a ton of looping and effects to fill out the sound, but that's part of their sound, and they're pretty damn punchy. pantera comes to mind as well.

btw steve vai only has 1 guitar trolololol
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:26 AM   #24
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[QUOTE=chronowarp]Ya I definitely don't know anything about Cream or Zeppelin. I'm also 14 and love metalcore.
Quote:

Fair enough. It's really easy for people (even people much older than you) to think of Clapton, for example, as the middle-of-the-road AOR artist he became later in his career. It's worth exploring once you get bored of the -core stuff.

[QUOTE]And you're misinterpreting my argument. I'm not saying that you can't manage with one guitar player, but if you have the ability to introduce a second and it's a style of music that really calls for it, then by all means you should probably maximize your ability to have a more versatile instrumentation.


Obviously having one guitar is limiting in some ways. But my point is that given that the OP wants to play post-HC related music and doesn't have a second guitarist he likes, he needs to start thinking outside the box.


Quote:
I strongly disagree with your comments on two guitar players not being able to function as one.


Really? I dunno - I've seen classical musicians who can play that perfectly, but I've never seen rockers where two guys could play with the lockstep precision, playing the exact same notes, so it sounded like one. I mean, sure, if you're just chug-chug-chuging, no problem. Trained monkeys could do that. But once you start doing more complex things, losing the ability to improvise at all (which is what you have to do if you want to have two guitars play as one) is really limiting, and honestly not that fun.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hail
i didn't read much of this but if you think taking back sunday is post-hardcore you're doing it really, really wrong

also, veil of maya has 1 guitarist. he uses a ton of looping and effects to fill out the sound, but that's part of their sound, and they're pretty damn punchy. pantera comes to mind as well.

btw steve vai only has 1 guitar trolololol

lololololololol

LOLOLOLOLOL


show


show


show


show


show


show


show
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-27-2012 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
lol
k dude

lol


Although it is quite possible that your band isn't tight, and that's why it sounds empty.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:26 AM   #27
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man i don't even want to get into how hard I'd smash you musically, because that's not even in the realm of this discussion. But you should be grown up enough to know better than framing your arguments in the context of "different opinion, ergo deficient", especially when you're not even hot shit to begin with.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:29 AM   #28
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[QUOTE=HotspurJr][QUOTE=chronowarp]Ya I definitely don't know anything about Cream or Zeppelin. I'm also 14 and love metalcore.
Quote:

Fair enough. It's really easy for people (even people much older than you) to think of Clapton, for example, as the middle-of-the-road AOR artist he became later in his career. It's worth exploring once you get bored of the -core stuff.



Obviously having one guitar is limiting in some ways. But my point is that given that the OP wants to play post-HC related music and doesn't have a second guitarist he likes, he needs to start thinking outside the box.




Really? I dunno - I've seen classical musicians who can play that perfectly, but I've never seen rockers where two guys could play with the lockstep precision, playing the exact same notes, so it sounded like one. I mean, sure, if you're just chug-chug-chuging, no problem. Trained monkeys could do that. But once you start doing more complex things, losing the ability to improvise at all (which is what you have to do if you want to have two guitars play as one) is really limiting, and honestly not that fun.

I meant more like...it's not hard to just tell one guy to stop ****ing playing for a verse.

Especially if one of those ******s is singing and doubling as the rhythm guitar player, then it becomes infinitely easier. Give him a ****ing tambourine or a beer. Anyway, I don't think you and I are in much disagreement. I agree that if the OP can't find anyone, then his best option is finding a way to MAKE it work with what he has, but that being said, he still could gain a lot by adding another guitarist if and when he finds one.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-27-2012 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:42 AM   #29
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This is me after reading this thread
see 2:22

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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-27-2012 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:53 AM   #30
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I came in here out of curiosity, and this is what I find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
lololololololol

LOLOLOLOLOL


Name me 5 Post-Hardcore and Metalcore bands you enjoy the most.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:56 AM   #31
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Look at the spoiler tags, dudeeee
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:03 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
Look at the spoiler tags, dudeeee


You can say they're Post-Hardcore as much as you want, but Taking Back Sunday are not Post-Hardcore. Neither is Escape The Fate, Black Veil Brides, Armor For Sleep or any of that. The same as how Killswitch Engage, Trivium, Asking Alexandria, and Lamb Of God aren't Metalcore.

OT: I would suggest looking for another guitarist if the music calls for one, but if you're able to get by with a loop or some effect than go with that for awhile till you find one.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:10 AM   #33
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What I say is this, "if you have a three piece band, (what us old fogies call a "power trio"), and you think you need another guitarist, that's the perfect time to hire a good keyboard player".
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
You can say they're Post-Hardcore as much as you want, but Taking Back Sunday are not Post-Hardcore. Neither is Escape The Fate, Black Veil Brides, Armor For Sleep or any of that. The same as how Killswitch Engage, Trivium, Asking Alexandria, and Lamb Of God aren't Metalcore.

OT: I would suggest looking for another guitarist if the music calls for one, but if you're able to get by with a loop or some effect than go with that for awhile till you find one.

I wouldn't say TBS is definitively post-hardcore, but it's not difficult to fit a lot of their music into that mold. Honestly, there's nothing less interesting to me than splitting hairs about what genre a band is. I'd rather stick my dick in a vice grip. I don't know what any of those other bands you listed are, but they sound like really shitty modern metalcore bands or something.

show
.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-27-2012 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:28 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
I wouldn't say TBS is definitively post-hardcore, but it's not difficult to fit a lot of their music into that mold. Honestly, there's nothing less interesting to me than splitting hairs about what genre a band is. I'd rather stick my dick in a vice grip. I don't know what any of those other bands you listed are, but they sound like really shitty modern metalcore bands or something.

show
.


Well, the reason being that you acted as if you knew something about Post-Hardcore and cited Wiki as a reason for TBS to be in that genre. It's pretty common for people to link mislabeled rock bands as post-hardcore with mislabeled metal bands as metalcore.

It was more of a correction than anything.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:48 AM   #36
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I do know something about Post-Hardcore, because I spent most of my teen years listening to it, and most of the bands I've played in have been heavily influenced by it. IF you hear zero similarity between bands like Silverstein and TBS I'd say that's a bigger issue than splitting hairs about TBS being more of an emo band than a post-hardcore band...considering the two things are extremely related and have tons of overlap.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 12-27-2012 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Captaincranky
What I say is this, "if you have a three piece band, (what us old fogies call a "power trio"), and you think you need another guitarist, that's the perfect time to hire a good keyboard player".

I agree. That's what we did with our band. The keyboard player can also play guitar so if a song needs two guitars, he can play rhythm guitar. But we don't really have many songs that would need two guitars. I also prefer one guitarist and don't like having two guitars if they play the same all the time.

I also agree with HotspurJr.

You can try to write songs with only one guitar part. It will sound different but it might be different in a good way. Try to write songs that don't need two guitars. And yeah, I wouldn't pick a genre that I want to belong to. You will just end up playing the same thing as your favorite bands. I would just start writing music I like and if it sounds like post-hardcore, OK. And if it doesn't sound like post-hardcore, OK. Thinking about "what genre I belong to" only limits you.

Look at Led Zeppelin. They have rock, blues, funk, pop, folk, country and metal-ish songs and they still sound like Led Zeppelin.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:52 PM   #38
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Pointless thread gets locked?

CT
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:38 AM   #39
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Why is this pointless?
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Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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Old 12-28-2012, 07:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
man i don't even want to get into how hard I'd smash you musically, because that's not even in the realm of this discussion. But you should be grown up enough to know better than framing your arguments in the context of "different opinion, ergo deficient", especially when you're not even hot shit to begin with.


I'm suggesting solutions as to why you personally cannot create a full sound with one guitarist when a whole heap of other people can. This is the question you pose in your thread.

Otherwise I'm absolutely sure you can smash me musically, I mean, considering at the amount of "lol"s you've responded to me and the extensive amount of recordings you've uploaded, it's quite obvious that you have an awesome grasp on music.
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