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Old 12-31-2012, 12:30 PM   #81
LP1951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-Mo
"In 1985 & 1986, Kramers were the best selling guitars in the World, more sold than Fenders or Gibsons."

I'm sort of skeptical about that. Anyone have another source of that? All I could find was the wikipedia page where it says "When the sales figures came in, Kramer was the best-selling guitar brand of 1985." And I could not find a reference to it in the sources cited, though I did look fairly quickly. I didn't check the Kramer guitar forum that is cited either.


Here's an article confirming it at the same site you have listed in your signature:

http://www.last.fm/group/Kramer

Here's another article about how Kramer became the best selling guitar brand in the World:

http://www.guitar-list.com/brands/kramer

"Kramer’s artist roster quickly rose to house the biggest, baddest, meanest, loudest, fastest, and best Guitar Stars in the world. The Kramer roster was obviously led by Eddie Van Halen, who took the Kramer and Floyd Rose combination to heights never even conceived by existing guitarists. The story goes like this - Eddie had been interested in finding a tremolo that stayed in tune, which would be more stable and versatile than existing tremolos.

When a meeting between Eddie Van Halen and Kramer execs took place, Eddie was quickly sold on the opportunity and he reportedly quipped that he would help make Kramer the “#1 guitar company in the world.”

Well, that did happen! Kramer became the world’s best selling guitar in the mid-80s, passing the historic and iconic Gibson and Fender brands. Coincidentally 2009 marks the 25th anniversary of the merger of an artist, a guitar and a tremolo to give birth to the most recognizable guitar in Rock-n-roll history."
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Last edited by LP1951 : 12-31-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:03 PM   #82
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You seem determined to believe the 'new Kramer' has, in some way, 'failed'.

It hasn't.

Move on.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:13 PM   #83
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Look Eddie, I know it hurts but at the end of the day you sold the brand to Gibson and you have to live with the consequences...time to let go dude.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:20 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-Mo
"In 1985 & 1986, Kramers were the best selling guitars in the World, more sold than Fenders or Gibsons."

I'm sort of skeptical about that. Anyone have another source of that? All I could find was the wikipedia page where it says "When the sales figures came in, Kramer was the best-selling guitar brand of 1985." And I could not find a reference to it in the sources cited, though I did look fairly quickly. I didn't check the Kramer guitar forum that is cited either.


i had a couple of kramers back in the day and they were everywhere. keep in mind that they had a monopoly on the floyd rose for a while as well. if you didn't have a super strat with a floyd in the mid 80s then you were looked down on plain and simple. i have old issues of Guitar For The Practicing Musicain and they had sales charts for the top selling guitars (under $500 and over) as well as amps. Kramer and Charvel were almost always at the top of the list every month. not hard to believe that they were #1 at least for a little while. also keep in mind that fender was in transition at that time and didn't have tons of guitars availabel to sell. gibson was just plain out of favour. sure guys still played them but not like they used to.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by monwobobbo
i had a couple of kramers back in the day and they were everywhere. keep in mind that they had a monopoly on the floyd rose for a while as well. if you didn't have a super strat with a floyd in the mid 80s then you were looked down on plain and simple. i have old issues of Guitar For The Practicing Musicain and they had sales charts for the top selling guitars (under $500 and over) as well as amps. Kramer and Charvel were almost always at the top of the list every month. not hard to believe that they were #1 at least for a little while. also keep in mind that fender was in transition at that time and didn't have tons of guitars availabel to sell. gibson was just plain out of favour. sure guys still played them but not like they used to.


Yes, most guitarists were dumping Fenders and Gibsons back in the mid 80s. Back then you could buy vintage Gibsons and Fenders for 200 to 500 bucks.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:52 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by LP1951
Thanks for those very interesting and informative articles. It is interesting to note that Gibson was able to quickly revive its brand but have been unable to do the same for Kramer. It is also interesting to note that Gibson hit its bottom in sales in 1986 when Kramer was the World's best selling guitar brand.

You are trying to read way too much into this.

1. Kramer guitars are Diecent

2. Kramer guitars are not in the same ballpark now as what they once were.

3. Hamer guitars has just closed and IMO were/are 10x the guitars modern Kramers will ever be.

4. Kramer guitars are not popular as a whole in the guitar world.

5. Just because you are a die hard fan, obviously the rest of the guitar comunity does not share you opinion.

You remind me of me when I was in high school in the mid 90's. All I wanted was a pair of Vanns checkerboard slip-ons (I thought every one would love them). Every store I wen to did not carry them, but would special order them. But only if I ordered 3 pairs at a time. I high school 3 pairs of $65 shoes was not happening. But in the early 2000's everyone else decided they wanted them too and they were every where. Maybe that will hapen with Kramer

But I'm not holding my breath
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:53 PM   #87
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Robbgnarly,

Evidently you misread my posts. I don't own any new Kramers. In fact, I have never seen a new Kramer in a music store. All of my Kramers were made in the 80s and early 2000s when Kramer was making some of the best guitars on the planet.

I doubt that the new Kramers will ever be as popular as the 80s Kramers were, but so what, PRS guitars have never been and will never be as popular as Gibsons, but Kramers were once more popular than Gibsons or Fenders.

Fyi, Kramer was the the best selling guitar brand in 1985 and 1986 and Kramers were played by most of the best players. Then Kramers were the most popular guitars in the world.

http://www.guitar-list.com/brands/kramer
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Last edited by LP1951 : 12-31-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:58 PM   #88
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I don't understand why everyone reveres Kramers as incredible guitars when a large majority of them were made out of plywood. I wouldn't associate such a brand that builds a guitar that way with quality.

Don't get me wrong, i love Kramers, but they weren't THAT amazing. I think the modern Kramers are as good as the ones made in the 80's imo.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:04 PM   #89
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A small minority of Kramers were made out of plywood and they were junk, just as some Squiers and Epiphones are made of plywood.

The vast majority of 80s Kramers were made of quality woods. Kramer designs were State of the Art, revolutionary designs that were copied by nearly every other guitar manufacturers and praised by most of the best professional guitarists>
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP1951
Robbgnarly,

Evidently you misread my posts. I don't own any new Kramers. In fact, I have never seen a new Kramer in a music store. All of my Kramers were made in the 80s and early 2000s when Kramer was making some of the best guitars on the planet.

I doubt that the new Kramers will ever be as popular as the 80s Kramers were, but so what, PRS guitars have never been and will never be as popular as Gibsons, but Kramers were once more popular than Gibsons or Fenders.

Fyi, Kramer was the the best selling guitar brand in 1985 and 1986 and Kramers were played by most of the best players. Then Kramers were the most popular guitars in the world.

http://www.guitar-list.com/brands/kramer


You bring their high sales up over and over, as if it's the only point you can make that you can back up.
PRS may not be as popular, but they appeal to a different audience, plus they have some damn nice finishes and inlays Gibson can't match, imo.

Seriously dude, you said that the brand was revived already, contradicting what you said in the original post.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:17 PM   #91
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[QUOTE=Charvel1995]

PRS may not be as popular, but they appeal to a different audience, plus they have some damn nice finishes and inlays Gibson can't match, imo.

QUOTE]

There is nothing special about PRS, they are just copies of Gibson designs with fretboards cluttered with inlays that add absolutely nothing to the sound. They will never be as popular as Gibsons or Epiphones.

They reason that Kramers were so popular in the 80s is because as Eddie Van Halen said, they were simply the best guitars you could buy.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:44 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP1951
[QUOTE=Charvel1995]

PRS may not be as popular, but they appeal to a different audience, plus they have some damn nice finishes and inlays Gibson can't match, imo.

QUOTE]

There is nothing special about PRS, they are just copies of Gibson designs with fretboards cluttered with inlays that add absolutely nothing to the sound. They will never be as popular as Gibsons or Epiphones.

They reason that Kramers were so popular in the 80s is because as Eddie Van Halen said, they were simply the best guitars you could buy.

oh look, the guy who can't even figure out how to quote someone doesn't like PRS

But seriously though, your opinions might be valid, but they are also dumb.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:46 PM   #93
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When you quote people you need to make sure that the html with the name in is completed in its entirety, with the desired text after it, finishing it with [ /quote] with no spaces.

What? PRS are awesome. The Dave Navvaro SE is especially awesome. As are lots of their guitars.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:14 PM   #94
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I always loved the hair metal Kramers of the day. I have several, an original '84 beretta, early 90's pacer, a 100St, and a Ferrington A/E. And when I heard Gibson bought up Kramer, I thought they were back, and they actually made some good stuff in the beginning, so I bought one, a doubleneck. But I think Gibson was more interested in keeping their current line going and let Kramer line fall through the cracks...
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP1951
There is nothing special about PRS, they are just copies of Gibson designs with fretboards cluttered with inlays that add absolutely nothing to the sound. They will never be as popular as Gibsons or Epiphones.

They reason that Kramers were so popular in the 80s is because as Eddie Van Halen said, they were simply the best guitars you could buy.

1. PRS are not copys of gibsons but a take on the best aspects of Gibson and Fender guitars in the same model.

2. EVH has said every product he has ever endorsed is the best in the world. That would include Marshall, Kramer, Peavey, Soldano, EBMM and his new EVH line by Fender. I see a pattern here do you? Seems like EVH likes any brand shoving Ben Franklins in his pocket

Just because something is #1 at anything once in its existance does not mean it will always be that way. Look at Pabst Blue Ribbon beer it was the #1 beer in the world in 1886, now it is one of the cheapest beers you can buy. Things change I remember when Sega made an awesome console to play games on, but not enough people also agree.


I feel like I'm kicking a dead horse...............
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:31 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by LP1951

There is nothing special about PRS, they are just copies of Gibson designs with fretboards cluttered with inlays that add absolutely nothing to the sound. They will never be as popular as Gibsons or Epiphones.




You're not smart.
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