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Old 12-30-2012, 10:48 AM   #1
JimmyCraig
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Am I just feeling threatened? Or is there cause?

Right, I've been in a band for a couple of months. we had a guitarist and singer, though he mostly sang, a drummer, a bassist/keyboardist and me (guitar and bass occasionally). We then came to the conclusion that the then singer's singing was shit, so we got looking for a proper singer and found one. Now the drummer wants to keep the singer on as a guitarist but I have several objections:
1. He is the worst musician out of all of us, doesn't know how to keep time
2. He is a below-average songwriter
3. All of our current songs are made specifically for mostly just one guitar, and I think adding a second guitar part to these songs would make them needlessly complicated.
Now some of you might think I'm threatened by him, but I really don't feel that way. I know for a fact that if it came down to it they would keep me instead of him because I am the main songwriter and a better guitarist than him. I have given in and said I am willing to keep him on for 2 more practices to see how it goes with him adding parts (I won't add the parts for him). I really think it's just a waste of time...what do you think? Why keep someone like that on?
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:35 PM   #2
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Sounds like you answered your own question.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:37 PM   #3
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Just tell him that he hasnt got the skill to play in your band. And else, tell him to better his singing/guitar playing skills and that he can come back after you and your other bandmembers approved it.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:48 PM   #4
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drop him like he's hot
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:56 PM   #5
Bart123
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1) Disband
2) Make a new band next week with everyone except him
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:57 PM   #6
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It kind of sounds like you already know what you want to do and just want someone to tell you you're doing the right thing so you don't feel bad about it.
If you're serious about this band, let him go but just be straightforward with him. No one likes rejection but at least if you yourself tell him why he can't be in the band, you'll own up to your decision.
Just don't decide he shouldn't be in the band and slowly phase him out by ignoring phone calls or treating him like shit or worse of all having someone else explain YOUR reasons for not wanting him in the band. That's definitely the way to burn bridges and get yourself a bad rep.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #7
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Keep an open mind.

"(I won't add the parts for him). " - sounds kind of petty/spiteful tbh.

Maybe he does suck and is not good enough. But if you give him every chance to succeed and he fails then you can honestly tell the rest of your band you gave it a decent go but that guy just doesn't have the chops.

Even if that guy isn't the right person you might find that two guitars has a lot of potential and decide to ditch that guy but keep your eye out for a better guitar player.

And two guitars doesn't make things "needlessly complicated" I mean Guns'n'Roses, the Eagles, The Beatles, and the Rolling Stones all had two guitars. I don't think that resulted in needless complication.

What I'm getting at is that your post seems to show a prejudice against a second guitarist. Keep an open mind it can work well. Even bands with one guitarist often layer guitar parts. If you give it a fair crack and it doesn't work then make your decision.

I think you should also find out what it is the other band members are looking for. Do they want the depth of two guitars in the mix? Or do they just want to keep him in the band because they don't want to ditch their mate?
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:56 PM   #8
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I think it's worth asking your bandmates:

If this guy wasn't our recently-fired singer, would we be considering adding him as a guitarist?
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:47 PM   #9
AlanHB
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So let's look at your points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCraig
1. He is the worst musician out of all of us, doesn't know how to keep time


Is this from a technical standpoint or a "musical" standpoint (ie writing inappropriate parts). Him not keeping time is not good, I wouldn't have accepted a person into my band who cannot play with a band.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCraig
2. He is a below-average songwriter


Not too big, other people seem to be writing the songs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCraig
3. All of our current songs are made specifically for mostly just one guitar, and I think adding a second guitar part to these songs would make them needlessly complicated.


You work out parts for two guitars, again not too hard.



If the real issue is that he cannot play with the band, that you guys are too advanced for him and he's holding the band back as a result, kick him. Otherwise use your superior musical skills to figure out complementary guitar parts for the songs.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:22 AM   #10
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This might be one of those cases where you guys need to talk about your goals.

eg, the first band I was in was just a bunch of us having fun, none of us were that good and we didn't care. Then one guy joined the band who was really good and all of a sudden there were these new vistas open.

But about half the band wasn't interested in that. They just wanted to hang out with their friends and have fun, maybe play a college party or two. And so a couple of people ended up leaving the band.

And I wonder if that's part of the issue here. Are your bandmates bringing this guy in as a guitarist because he's a friend and they like hanging out with him, whereas you are thinking about actually getting good and putting on shows that don't suck, and thus you're working towards opposite ends?
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:29 AM   #11
JimmyCraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotspurJr
This might be one of those cases where you guys need to talk about your goals.

eg, the first band I was in was just a bunch of us having fun, none of us were that good and we didn't care. Then one guy joined the band who was really good and all of a sudden there were these new vistas open.

But about half the band wasn't interested in that. They just wanted to hang out with their friends and have fun, maybe play a college party or two. And so a couple of people ended up leaving the band.

And I wonder if that's part of the issue here. Are your bandmates bringing this guy in as a guitarist because he's a friend and they like hanging out with him, whereas you are thinking about actually getting good and putting on shows that don't suck, and thus you're working towards opposite ends?

Yeah I actually think this is what really bugs me the most. The rest of the band seems to have the attitude, especially the other guitarist, that we're just messing around and it's just like a friends getting together to play music thing, do some school competitions and that's all. I want the band to make it bigger than some lousy school, I want tours, regular gigs etc. I'm not saying I want to make it really big, just better than playing in front of 20 odd school kids who don't know 2 shits about good music. I think the drummer gets this and wants this too, but the bassist and the other guitarist see it as "nothing major".
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:01 AM   #12
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I'd say let him play with yall and keep "fooling" around and having a good time with that group. Meanwhile you and the drummer get together on your own and start jamming while you guys find a bassist. Get ****ing serious with it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:17 AM   #13
JimmyCraig
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It's funny you say that because the other day I got a new amp and just went to the drummer to jam, and we ended up starting a 2 piece, and thinking we;ll find a bassist just to gig with
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart123
1) Disband
2) Make a new band next week with everyone except him


don't do this.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCraig
Yeah I actually think this is what really bugs me the most. The rest of the band seems to have the attitude, especially the other guitarist, that we're just messing around and it's just like a friends getting together to play music thing, do some school competitions and that's all. I want the band to make it bigger than some lousy school, I want tours, regular gigs etc. I'm not saying I want to make it really big, just better than playing in front of 20 odd school kids who don't know 2 shits about good music. I think the drummer gets this and wants this too, but the bassist and the other guitarist see it as "nothing major".


Then you guys should talk about this, and you should have the conversation separate from any discussion of whether or not the new guitarist joins, but it's not really about that.

If this is the issue, talk about it - not about a peripheral issue brought up by it.

It is not worth being "bugged" by the fact that your friends have different goals than you do. All that means is that they may not be the best people for you to be in a bandmate in.

And if you and the drummer feel one way, and the other guys another way, then you may ultimately break up. You and the drummer might say, "Hey, look, we want to work harder than this and you guys don't, and that's cool, but that means we may start looking for another project." No reason to "break up" until you find that other project - after all, it's just a bunch of friends hanging out and making music.

It's really really useful to be able to drill down and figure out what the core issue is - don't get into fights with your bandmates over peripheral stuff. But when you do have a fundamental core disagreement (and "where do we want this to go" is one of the biggest ones) it's not worth getting angry about. It's like breaking up with your high school girlfriend because you're going away to college: it's not that there's anything wrong with her, but where you are in your lives isn't consistent with having the sort of relationship you might otherwise want to have with her.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #16
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Start a new, more serious band with the drummer and keep this band for jamming and having fun. You can have many bands at the same time.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:44 PM   #17
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This was the situation with my first ever band, and I found the best way forward at the time was to say "Yeah, we call all be better musicians really, who cares, let's just have fun, play what we can, practice makes perfect". The first incarnation of the band, I was the one who had to play catch up to the better musicians, the other incarnations it was others. I couldn't very well deny them the change to play music with us, when I'd been in the same situation.

Some members knew sod all about theory, so the times I strayed that way they'd say, "Know what? I don't have a clue what you're talking about". Being honest was great, because from then on we could take a step back and let everyone more or less deal with their OWN parts. If it sounds good, who cares. The famous musicians from both ends of the scale can be considered pretty awesome right?

No sweat
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