Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-01-2013, 02:16 AM   #1
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Thumbs down Modes Question! Yay!

I know you guys were really looking forward to explaining modes again to another pathetic amateur. However, my question is pretty simple: Can you change modes in the middle of a song, and if you can, when? I'm sure that if you don't make it obvious it would sound like shit
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 02:31 AM   #2
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
Yes, you can. You can do so anytime you want. All you have to do is change the harmony.

What do you know about keys, chord progressions and scales?
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 02:48 AM   #3
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Yes you can, however without a firm understanding of keys it's more likely that you were never in a mode to begin with.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 02:48 AM   #4
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Not much lol.
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 02:51 AM   #5
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
So depending on the chord in the progression, you just change what mode your playing?
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 02:57 AM   #6
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
Not much lol.

Stay away from modes. Modes come from an older system of music that has since been replaced with our current tonal system. Unfortunately, based on some connections people have made between modes and the major scale, the names of modes have been co-opted to specify positions and orderings of the standard major scale, but all they are is a fretboard organizational tool. Too often, people think they are playing with modes when they are just playing with the major scale and end up screwing up their understanding of music theory.
It's sort of like wanting to get better at English by studying Old and Middle English instead of working on the English we already use. Only after you have an understanding of modern English can you study the older versions without having to worry about screwing up your skills in the modern version.

The music theory link in my sig is a good place to start.

EDIT: Hit the edit button when you want to add something to your post to avoid double-posting. To answer your question, no. One, modes have nothing to do with it. Two, if your progression is in the key of C major, your solo, no matter what notes you play, will be in the key of C major.
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort

Last edited by rockingamer2 : 01-01-2013 at 02:59 AM.
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:00 AM   #7
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
So depending on the chord in the progression, you just change what mode your playing?


No, without understanding harmonic context no matter what note you play it will most likely be in a key, not a mode.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:07 AM   #8
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
So its just the chords you play over that makes it whatever mode it is, but its still the same scale? Thank god, that seems a lot simpler than switching complete scales..
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:12 AM   #9
Xiaoxi
Indeed.
 
Xiaoxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bodymore, Murdaland
if you're looking for a quick easy way answer: yes

if you're serious about understanding music correctly: no, because there's no such thing as modes
__________________
"Man, modes 'n' scales ain't got no users, only abusers." - X.X. Little

Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music

My New Workstation
Xiaoxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:18 AM   #10
donegan_zealot
UG's Clueless Guitarist
 
donegan_zealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Recreational Meth Vehicle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
if you're serious about understanding music correctly: no, because there's no such thing as modes


I was waiting for this post from Xiaoxi as soon as i saw the title
donegan_zealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:21 AM   #11
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
You're starting to see it. Just stop using the word "mode."

Let's just focus on two aspects of music: harmony and melody. Melody is the the tune that catches your ear and is the singable or hummable part of the music. The harmony is the musical background to that melody, it's what gives it context. This is done with chords and those chords are the ones that dictate what key the song is in, not the melody.

Let's say you have the progression C Am F G. This chord progression is in the key of C major. If you play it, you'll notice that the G really wants to pull itself somewhere. Then play a C major chord and you'll get that release of tension your ears are begging for. C is where the progression resolves, or feels the at home. All the other chords in the key want to move somewhere else. Now the melody will be in that key as well, and we use the major scale as a starting place when choosing notes of the melody because it contains the "safe" notes that won't clash too hard (and the major pentatonic scale cuts out two of the seven, making it even "safer.")
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort

Last edited by rockingamer2 : 01-01-2013 at 03:22 AM.
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:29 AM   #12
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
I'm sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm just curious. If modes are in your opinion "out-dated," then what should I use instead to give my sound a little more flavor? I don't want to settle with just major/minor scales because they can get boring and repetitive if that's all I use.
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:37 AM   #13
rockingamer2
Larmarky Remark
 
rockingamer2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rainy Northwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
I'm sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm just curious. If modes are in your opinion "out-dated," then what should I use instead to give my sound a little more flavor? I don't want to settle with just major/minor scales because they can get boring and repetitive if that's all I use.

I can see the allure of modes, but really, our tonal system gives you plenty of options. This is because you can use notes outside the major and minor scale and still be in key. These notes are called "accidentals."

Too many people fall into this trap of getting bored and jumping on modes when they are not ready for them at all. Besides, you'll get bored of actual modes rather quickly because they are pretty restrictive. Sure it may sound cool or different, but each mode is stuck with that sound and it gets old quick. Why do you think we moved on hundreds of years ago?

Work on expanding your skills and knowledge with tonal theory before going back in time.
__________________
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^

"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity."

MUSIC THEORY LINK

SteamID: CarrionComfort
rockingamer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:55 AM   #14
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
I'm sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm just curious. If modes are in your opinion "out-dated," then what should I use instead to give my sound a little more flavor? I don't want to settle with just major/minor scales because they can get boring and repetitive if that's all I use.


It's not the scale that's boring, it's how you use it. In keys there's 7 notes (arguably 8 if you include harmonic minor as a key) of 12 that are classified as "in key". Then we have 5 other notes that you can use whenever you want. That covers all the notes available on the guitar.

Do you need more? Perhaps you should look at some of your favourite guitar solos and figure out how they use major/minor scale and accidentals (if any).
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 03:58 AM   #15
Xiaoxi
Indeed.
 
Xiaoxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bodymore, Murdaland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
I'm sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm just curious. If modes are in your opinion "out-dated," then what should I use instead to give my sound a little more flavor? I don't want to settle with just major/minor scales because they can get boring and repetitive if that's all I use.

Scales/modes aren't boring in the same way that the letters of the alphabet aren't boring. They're inherently there, no matter what you do.

What's boring is that you use them to dictate what you should do musically.
__________________
"Man, modes 'n' scales ain't got no users, only abusers." - X.X. Little

Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music

My New Workstation
Xiaoxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 04:15 AM   #16
Dix Stirbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Gotcha. I'll just run along now and learn some more music theory lol. Thanks for clearing things up
__________________
Dix Stirbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 06:15 AM   #17
20Tigers
1
 
20Tigers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Yes you can modulate between modes in the same song.

One elegant example of this is Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) by the Beatles.

Note the direct modulation from the mixolydian mode to the dorian mode. (about 0:32 and again at 1:21) And it modulates back to the mixolydian mode for the start of the following verses.

__________________
Si
20Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 06:54 AM   #18
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dix Stirbt
I know you guys were really looking forward to explaining modes again to another pathetic amateur. However, my question is pretty simple: Can you change modes in the middle of a song, and if you can, when? I'm sure that if you don't make it obvious it would sound like shit

Yeah you can switch to what ever you want mate.

You got Mixolydian and Phrygian Dominant modes and keys everywhere. lol

mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 09:19 AM   #19
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
the words "mode" and "progression" should never be used within the same context
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #20
macashmack
Maskcashmack
 
macashmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
Yeah you can switch to what ever you want mate.

You got Mixolydian and Phrygian Dominant modes and keys everywhere. lol



Oh Satch, you just love those modes dont'cha
macashmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.