Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > UG Community > The Pit
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-03-2013, 05:55 PM   #101
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Why is this terrible thread still going? You all should be ashamed!
crazysam23_Atax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:20 PM   #102
Butt Rayge
UG Resident
 
Butt Rayge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ice Kingdom, Land of Ooo
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Why is this terrible thread still going? You all should be ashamed!

Butt Rayge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:26 PM   #103
smmSTV
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
It should be legal to do so, but nobody really should be stupid enough to do it. I really don't get how this is such of a big issue though.
smmSTV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:44 PM   #104
5thCircuitRider
Wild Horseman
 
5thCircuitRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Silent Hill
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
It's funny that in America, a nation where people hate welfare recipients and such because they despise the "entitlement" culture, they feel their rights "entitle" them to firearms and being a dick.


This is pretty much what I came in here to say even though i'm an American.

5thCircuitRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #105
yoman297
how quik do i get ban
 
yoman297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: THE ISLAND
This little kid flipped me off today while I was on the job. I only wanted to know why he was smoking on private property... he told me that his actions were protected under the first amendment or something.

kids these days
__________________
My Music
Fender Ritchie Blackmore Strat
Fender Mark Hoppus P-Bass
and a bunch of other things
yoman297 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 09:49 PM   #106
devourke
Banned
 
devourke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinator-x
Am I really the only person in the world who has followed the law and still live perfectly happily?

Def not. A cop once told me to put a shirt on in case some drunk people see me shirtless and think about fighting me. And another cop denied me a hug the New Years before last. That's the worst experience I've ever had with a cop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisewall11
OK, so my memory was a bit inaccurate, but .....



That's pretty hilarious tbh.

"Do it bro, he can't do shit to you"
devourke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:23 AM   #107
beefcake122
no fun.
 
beefcake122's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
As an American, I agree with you. Here's the reality, TS...

Cops generally work their asses off dealing with scumbags. Why exactly would you A) NOT show them basic respect ("Yes, sir", "No, sir", don't flip him off, etc.) and B) want to provoke them? How would you feel if you just spent the day booking some petty thief and then some smartass kid flips you off because 1) he says it's protected by the 1st Amendment AND 2) because he thinks it's funny. I'd be pissed.

Edit:
And, for the record, obscenities are NOT protected under the 1st Amendment. The Amendment states:


Obscenity (which is what flipping off a cop is; it's a "Fuck you") are not protected speech. Read this for various laws in obscenity in the US.

I'm neutral toward cops when I meet them since they could be good or bad, I refuse to call them "sir" though, even if it would get me out of a ticket. I don't respect them any more than a random person in the street.
__________________
sunbather is shit
beefcake122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:18 AM   #108
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
 
SlackerBabbath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Burnley, UK
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially ******ed.
__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius

Slacker's Art Website.

Last edited by SlackerBabbath : 01-04-2013 at 06:33 AM.
SlackerBabbath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 07:29 AM   #109
catempire
yawn...
 
catempire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
It's (sometimes) legal to say 'get fucked you cunt' to a cop, so flipping them off is just fine (*in Australia).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtydeeds468
Holy Crap.

I love you more than life itself.

Last edited by catempire : 01-04-2013 at 07:33 AM.
catempire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:39 AM   #110
pullingthrough
Registered User
 
pullingthrough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefcake122
I'm neutral toward cops when I meet them since they could be good or bad, I refuse to call them "sir" though, even if it would get me out of a ticket. I don't respect them any more than a random person in the street.



I think this is the entire problem here(not to single you out, just the statement seems to fit the opinions of a few). You should be respectful of anyone you meet, whether it be a cop or a random person. Why the hell does anyone feel the need to flip off any other person. Back in the day you called everybody sir or ma'am because thats just the way it is, give out the same respect that you want to receive.
pullingthrough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:48 AM   #111
TooktheAtrain
Banned
 
TooktheAtrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullingthrough
I think this is the entire problem here(not to single you out, just the statement seems to fit the opinions of a few). You should be respectful of anyone you meet, whether it be a cop or a random person. Why the hell does anyone feel the need to flip off any other person. Back in the day you called everybody sir or ma'am because thats just the way it is, give out the same respect that you want to receive.


That's what he (and I) said. It's just that cops don't deserve special treatment when it comes to displays of respect.
TooktheAtrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 10:41 AM   #112
jugglingfreak
UG Newbie
 
jugglingfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Georgia
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooktheAtrain
That's what he (and I) said. It's just that cops don't deserve special treatment when it comes to displays of respect.



Exactly the point. Why would you run up to some random person yell "f*** you" and flip them off?

If you did, some of them just might give you a beat down.

What you have is a bunch of cowardly douche bags who want to flip off a cop with out consequences in order to make themselves feel better about their small penises.



What is also misunderstood by those people is the process. Here is what would probably happen:

You flip off a cop and say "f*** you".
Cop arrests you for "disorderly conduct"
You are cuffed and taken to the police station/jail
You get bailed out/released until hearing
At the hearing, you plead "not guilty"
Case goes to court, you successfully argue you were exercising your rights.
Your found "not guilty" and move on.

That process takes several months and will cost you a lot of money.

Oh, but you say I'd sue the cop/police force. You can, you have to file a separate Civil suit. Civil lawsuits take even longer. While your waiting for that suit, you still have to pay the previous money. They don't care that a law suit is pending.

For the civil suit you still have to hire and pay an attorney (usually quite a bit up front just as a retaining fee) and you can include the attorney's fees in your case, if you win, but the retainer fee is still up front.

Say you win the lawsuit, the police can appeal and that will add another year or two on to the case before you get any money. And after it's over the attorney will take about 30%.

Provided you win your civil case. A judge can still say that while you were not guilty, they still had grounds to take you in. It that case you are on the hook for all the money.

So if anyone thinks all that is worth the 2 sec. thrill of flipping a cop off, have fun.

Last edited by jugglingfreak : 01-04-2013 at 11:11 AM.
jugglingfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #113
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially ******ed.


It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.
__________________
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Arby911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:35 PM   #114
MadClownDisease
Just a Turing Machine.
 
MadClownDisease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.

I agree, I don't think being rude or being a twat should be illegal.

If someone is repeatedly harassing someone, or having long term effects, or threatening... maybe. But swearing at someone being illegal? Not a matter for law if you ask me.
__________________
Last.fm
Flickr
MadClownDisease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:40 PM   #115
Todd Hart
Do Sadists go to Hell?
 
Todd Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.


It's not illegal, but that doesn't mean you aren't going to get your ass kicked for it.
__________________
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Todd Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:58 PM   #116
PoisonousNipple
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
That's illegal
PoisonousNipple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 05:48 AM   #117
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
 
SlackerBabbath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Burnley, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially ******ed.
It should certainly not be socially acceptable.

It should however be legal.

Why should society legaly 'accept' something that it considers as 'unacceptable'? That's completely counter-intuative.
Something is made 'illegal' because it is considered as 'unacceptable' by general society. A type of behaviour is made illegal because general society says "We will not accept this behaviour". If a type of behaviour isn't made illegal, then that's essentially society expessing that it consideres it as 'acceptable'.

A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?
__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius

Slacker's Art Website.

Last edited by SlackerBabbath : 01-06-2013 at 06:11 AM.
SlackerBabbath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #118
MadClownDisease
Just a Turing Machine.
 
MadClownDisease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Why should society legaly 'accept' something that it considers as 'unacceptable'? That's completely counter-intuative.
Something is made 'illegal' because it is considered as 'unacceptable' by general society. A type of behaviour is made illegal because general society says "We will not accept this behaviour". If a type of behaviour isn't made illegal, then that's essentially society expessing that it consideres it as 'acceptable'.

A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?

Nah, legally prohibiting is different to condoning. There is a difference between wanting people to not do something or not approving and actively preventing it via a legal system. Legal prohibition can have many other effects than simply stopping that activity taking place.

The obvious example would be drugs and prostitution. You can both accept you don't want people to do that and that you don't think it's acceptable, whilst also accepting that legal action would be more negative or that it's not the place of the legal system to prevent such things happening. Whether swearing at people is within the same class of things is another argument, but there are certainly things you don't want people to do that you shouldn't make illegal.

Similarly there are things that you might think are acceptable but should still be illegal. Perhaps stealing bread for your poor family or somesuch. You might think it's acceptable in such situations, but for anti-theft laws to work you have to include them within that law.
This is probably the type of law I'd put anti-offensive law in. You might not want people to be able to abuse others, but for a law against that to be clear cut enough to actually be able to function you might have to include a lot of behaviour in it that you would think should be allowed (for example, criticising public figures, expressing your opinion, not being legally subject to what other people feel about what you said etc).

I'm not saying it's a simple "oh slippery slope! Outlaw that you have to outlaw the rest!", I'm saying the legal system is so widespread and regularly used that laws can't be too nuanced or flexible or else nothing gets done. There's no logical inconsistency saying abusing people should be illegal whilst joking should not, but the law is a practical entity and in practice there are plenty of things that can't be made illegal without infringing on the freedom to do certain other things.


(Quite apart from all of which, I think anyone who thinks the law needs to intervene every time they feel insulted just needs to stop being such a big baby.)
__________________
Last.fm
Flickr

Last edited by MadClownDisease : 01-06-2013 at 09:28 AM.
MadClownDisease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:44 AM   #119
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
 
SlackerBabbath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Burnley, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
I think anyone who thinks the law needs to intervene every time they feel insulted just needs to stop being such a big baby.

This isn't a case of just anyone feeling insulted, it's a case of showing contempt to the law. For the law to operate correctly, it, and the people who represent it, requires a certain amount of respect from the public, if it was considered as perfectly OK to be abusive towards police officers without fear of prosecution they would no longer be as effective at their job of enforcing the law.
__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius

Slacker's Art Website.

Last edited by SlackerBabbath : 01-07-2013 at 05:22 AM.
SlackerBabbath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:58 AM   #120
mulefish
UG Addict
 
mulefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Not being particularly well versed in law, I'd say wouldn't this come under verbal assault?
In which case, words by themselves are not sufficient, but teamed with a threatening manner can definitely be illegal. At least that's my understanding.

Insulting a police officer is pants down ******ed. The only time I can see anyone doing it is with a threatening, and non complying manner towards the officer, so I struggle to see when anyone can do this legally to the police officer. The most I can understand is accidentally letting slip a swear word or something.

And lastly, if it's in public it can probably come under disturbing the peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
When someone tries to argue that an abusive act towards a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly legal and socially acceptable, then that person is quite obviously socially ******ed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
A police officer represents the law in public, in exactly the same way that a judge represents the law in court. You wouldn't expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a judge in a courtroom so why should you expect to get away with showing contempt to the law by flipping off a police officer in public?

Both of these.
__________________
RIP Gooze
cats
mulefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 PM.

Forum Archives / About / TOS / Advertise with us / Customer Support / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2015
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.