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Old 01-03-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
ToneMasterDelux
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Are hybrid amps as 'safe' as solid state amps?

I've been having problems with our houses power (old and always fluctuating), I have high reason to believe it has caused the death of two of my Tube Amp's PTs so I'm looking for something safer.

First, are SS as susceptible to power flux as Tube amps and second are hybrids (ex. Tube Pre's like Micro Terror) as safe as SS amps with power fluxes?

I don't want to keep having to buy PT's until I move out.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:36 PM   #2
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I imagine that a flux in power, if large enough, will hurt pretty much anything where there are delicate components ready to be fried.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #3
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If your power is really that bad, you need a power conditioner.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
If your power is really that bad, you need a power conditioner.

Is there a way to tell if it is "really that bad", all I really know is that we have lights dim frequently, a hairdryer can shut off power on a floor, and two amps have ruined PTs after moving to this house (one I have not fully tested the PT yet).

Most other appliances perform okay though but you can tell things take longer to charge at our house.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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That sounds quite bad to me.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:16 PM   #6
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Fact: Electronic items require a stable and clean source of power. As the power begins to sag or buck, power supplies are worked harder and components are stressed. Depending on what's causing the power issues in your place, you could also have large spikes in the AC. Good surge protectors can help to limit the spikes, but most of them use MOVs, or Metal Oxide Varistors. MOVs are cheap and effective at limiting spikes, but they're only good for so many cycles and their failure mode usually isn't pretty. A surge protector will do nothing to limit sags or minor over voltage events. Unfortunately, this condition can cause other problems, too. You don't say what's causing the power issues, but if the wiring in the home is inadequate, you risk fire.

A decent UPS could help, although you need to make sure whatever you plug into it will be happy with the square wave AC it produces. Most UPS do not produce true sine wave AC. Some items do not like to operate on square wave AC. As I mentioned in your other post, and as has been suggested here, you ultimately need a power conditioner, such as the one I use here in my rack. Unfortunately, both may be outside of your budget.

Failure to address the root cause will only result in subsequent amps being damaged.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneMasterDelux
Is there a way to tell if it is "really that bad", all I really know is that we have lights dim frequently, a hairdryer can shut off power on a floor, and two amps have ruined PTs after moving to this house (one I have not fully tested the PT yet).

Most other appliances perform okay though but you can tell things take longer to charge at our house.

If you're not an electrician, I wouldn't go troubleshooting mains voltage.

Hire an electrician.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppicurt
If you're not an electrician, I wouldn't go troubleshooting mains voltage.

Hire an electrician.


I see... So there is no device or anything to plug in to at least test if its bad? I want to know before hiring an electrician or buy a UPC and spending big cash (for me heh).

P.S. Are you in some way related to LemurFlames?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneMasterDelux
I see... So there is no device or anything to plug in to at least test if its bad? I want to know before hiring an electrician or buy a UPC and spending big cash (for me heh).


i am not sure you necessarily need a quantitative analysis of how bad your power is, all the stuff you mentioned earlier is proof enough.

they do sell units that can quantitatively analyze your power, they seem to start around 1000 bucks. maybe normal multi meter can help analyze your home power, you can get them for ~50 bucks. i am sure you could get an electrician out there to give you an estimate for free, he should be able to test things and tell you wassup

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneMasterDelux
P.S. Are you in some way related to LemurFlames?

eppi's from aussie land, LF is from oklahoma. so i kinda doubt they are related. they seem to like the same cartoons though.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:46 PM   #10
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If it's any consolation, I'm in school studying electrical engineering, and I'd have an electrician look at my mains before I'd mess with it myself lol.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:51 PM   #11
ToneMasterDelux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbilicious
i am not sure you necessarily need a quantitative analysis of how bad your power is, all the stuff you mentioned earlier is proof enough.

they do sell units that can quantitatively analyze your power, they seem to start around 1000 bucks. maybe normal multi meter can help analyze your home power, you can get them for ~50 bucks. i am sure you could get an electrician out there to give you an estimate for free, he should be able to test things and tell you wassup

That probably sounds like the best idea, before I sign off though does anyone know if it is significant that a cheap outlet tester said the outlet was 'open ground'?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TremontiAddict
If it's any consolation, I'm in school studying electrical engineering, and I'd have an electrician look at my mains before I'd mess with it myself lol.

Hehe, trust me, I'm not about to risk spending anymore money just wondering if a power conditioner is a sound investment for me. I think it probably is just to be safe.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:55 PM   #13
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dude, fix your house's power issues before it ****ing burns down.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:28 PM   #14
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Your house ground has gone open and you are worried about what sort of amp will take shitty power best? Are you out of your mind? Get the house wiring fixed before you kill yourself. You got bigger issues than guitar.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:41 PM   #15
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:43 PM   #16
ToneMasterDelux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Your house ground has gone open and you are worried about what sort of amp will take shitty power best? Are you out of your mind? Get the house wiring fixed before you kill yourself. You got bigger issues than guitar.

Hey man, no need to be harsh. I don't know anything about electricity, we rent a house from the 1800's or something and only some of the outlets are grounded, I don't even know what open ground means. Could you please explain what is so bad about open ground (instead of patronizing)? I'm not trying to work on it at all just trying to see whats wrong.

PS we are calling an electrician anyways.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:51 PM   #17
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Earth is there in case a device shorts out to the chassis. It stops you from dying. If it's gone open that means you become the path to the ground. If that's gone there could be anything else wrong. That's a pretty big thing to lose, who knows what else is all ****ed up?
There was need to be harsh. I had to get your attention. You were going to die.
Be very careful until the sparky gets there. I wouldn't use anything plugged into the wall until he does. I mean it, get an electrician out asap. Am I getting the severity of the issue across clearly?
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Earth is there in case a device shorts out to the chassis. It stops you from dying. If it's gone open that means you become the path to the ground. If that's gone there could be anything else wrong. That's a pretty big thing to lose, who knows what else is all ****ed up?
There was need to be harsh. I had to get your attention. You were going to die.
Be very careful until the sparky gets there. I wouldn't use anything plugged into the wall until he does. I mean it, get an electrician out asap. Am I getting the severity of the issue across clearly?

Okay Okay, thank you. I don't know if this altered the test but I found out the outlet is a GFCI. The house was re-wired and checked within the last 10 years but I have no idea if it was a bad electrician or what...
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:12 AM   #19
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GFCI does make a difference. It works in a different way so the tester probably gave the wrong result. Still, you shouldn't be blowing power transformers. That's some pretty serious shit. It needs to be checked out. There could be quite a few extremely dangerous things causing that.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:17 AM   #20
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To be on the safe side, grab a mains adapter with surge protection. It won't stop the power from being inconsistent, but it should at least stop anything from being badly damaged. A surge is worse than failure, with valves (and by extension, hybrids). Obviously, you'll want to get your wiring looked at ASAP, but try that in the meantime.
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