Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-07-2013, 01:34 AM   #21
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
 
kangaxxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Using a Zero Fret means that the nut is only used for string spacing and the string height is set by the zero fret. This means that the nut slot and the string slots can be cut to any depth, and no cuts for or on the nut have to be accurately measured. Do a google search next time.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Anonymous
Buy the cheapest guitar you can find at a pawn shop and spend the rest on speed

Guitar

Whenever I hear someone say that they play exclusively a single genre, I always assume that they're just a terrible guitarist.
kangaxxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:40 AM   #22
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
Using a Zero Fret means that the nut is only used for string spacing and the string height is set by the zero fret. This means that the nut slot and the string slots can be cut to any depth, and no cuts for or on the nut have to be accurately measured. Do a google search next time.

What does a nut slot have to do with it? The nut only serves to set the string spacing, but other than that it serve no purpose. You don't need to accurately measure the nut slots because they only need to be deep enough so the string doesn't rest on the nut.

What exactly is your point? It sounds like you are trying to create a problem with zero frets that doesn't actually exist.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:43 AM   #23
boyomarga
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
You have no idea what you're talking about. [img]*********************************/images/47.gif[/img]
boyomarga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:46 AM   #24
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
 
kangaxxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
What does a nut slot have to do with it? The nut only serves to set the string spacing, but other than that it serve no purpose. You don't need to accurately measure the nut slots because they only need to be deep enough so the string doesn't rest on the nut.

What exactly is your point? It sounds like you are trying to create a problem with zero frets that doesn't actually exist.


...

Oh, you. You had me going there for a couple of posts. But this part gave it away.

8/10, would be trolled again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Anonymous
Buy the cheapest guitar you can find at a pawn shop and spend the rest on speed

Guitar

Whenever I hear someone say that they play exclusively a single genre, I always assume that they're just a terrible guitarist.
kangaxxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:48 AM   #25
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
...

Oh, you. You had me going there for a couple of posts. But this part gave it away.

8/10, would be trolled again.

I'm not trolling you. Please explain your point better, or admit that you're talking out of your ass.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:50 AM   #26
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
 
kangaxxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm not trolling you. Please explain your point better, or admit that you're talking out of your ass.


Wait, you seriously don't believe that the height of your guitar's nut doesn't matter?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Anonymous
Buy the cheapest guitar you can find at a pawn shop and spend the rest on speed

Guitar

Whenever I hear someone say that they play exclusively a single genre, I always assume that they're just a terrible guitarist.
kangaxxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:52 AM   #27
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
Wait, you seriously don't believe that the height of your guitar's nut doesn't matter?

Yes, when a zero fret is in place, the nut height(the string guide) only needs to be low enough so that the string does not rest upon it.

And it's not my belief, that's how a zero fret is done.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 01:55 AM   #28
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
 
kangaxxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Yes, when a zero fret is in place, the nut height(the string guide) only needs to be low enough so that the string does not rest upon it.

And it's not my belief, that's how a zero fret is done.


Zero frets are not done like normal frets, the Zero fret is higher than normal frets and the nut, like so:



Because of this, the string slots and the nut itself can be cut to any height as long as they're spaced properly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Anonymous
Buy the cheapest guitar you can find at a pawn shop and spend the rest on speed

Guitar

Whenever I hear someone say that they play exclusively a single genre, I always assume that they're just a terrible guitarist.
kangaxxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:02 AM   #29
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
Zero frets are not done like normal frets, the Zero fret is higher than normal frets and the nut, like so:



Because of this, the string slots and the nut itself can be cut to any height as long as they're spaced properly.

First off, a zero fret isn't higher than the other frets, unless it's done that way intentionally. People can't seem to wrap their mind around this concept, but it's no different that putting a capo on the guitar, or doing a barre chord.

Secondly, the string slots in the nut need to be lower than the zero fret(as you said). I'm not denying that. But the idea way is to have it so low that the string doesn't sit on the nut at all. No contact with the nut means not possibility of binding. The setup in that pic will work, but it's not ideal(assuming that the string is actually sitting on the nut at some point, it's hard to tell with any certainty).
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:12 AM   #30
kangaxxter
tune up turn on rock out
 
kangaxxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
First off, a zero fret isn't higher than the other frets, unless it's done that way intentionally. People can't seem to wrap their mind around this concept, but it's no different that putting a capo on the guitar, or doing a barre chord.

Secondly, the string slots in the nut need to be lower than the zero fret(as you said). I'm not denying that. But the idea way is to have it so low that the string doesn't sit on the nut at all. No contact with the nut means not possibility of binding. The setup in that pic will work, but it's not ideal(assuming that the string is actually sitting on the nut at some point, it's hard to tell with any certainty).


Dude, you're the one who has no idea what they're talking about. The zero fret is used as an easy way to set string height. "The setup in the pic is not ideal." As opposed to what other way a zero fret is setup? The setup in the pic is how zero frets are set up. I'm done arguing about this, you're obviously the one who's talking out of their ass. I know I'm right and if you don't want to believe it, then **** it. You can just be ignorant alone.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Anonymous
Buy the cheapest guitar you can find at a pawn shop and spend the rest on speed

Guitar

Whenever I hear someone say that they play exclusively a single genre, I always assume that they're just a terrible guitarist.
kangaxxter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:18 AM   #31
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
Dude, you're the one who has no idea what they're talking about. The zero fret is used as an easy way to set string height. "The setup in the pic is not ideal." As opposed to what other way a zero fret is setup? The setup in the pic is how zero frets are set up. I'm done arguing about this, you're obviously the one who's talking out of their ass. I know I'm right and if you don't want to believe it, then **** it. You can just be ignorant alone.

The zero fret is more than an easy way to set the string height, it's also used to keep tonal consistency and to prevent binding. If the string rests on the nut, you lose one of the benefits of a zero fret, preventing binding.

Clearly this concept is above your head. Try learning how a guitar actually works instead of just reading ignorant posts on random forums and then regurgitating the same misinformation.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:00 AM   #32
Wisthekiller
UG's Nigel Tufnel
 
Wisthekiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
The zero fret is more than an easy way to set the string height, it's also used to keep tonal consistency and to prevent binding. If the string rests on the nut, you lose one of the benefits of a zero fret, preventing binding.

Clearly this concept is above your head. Try learning how a guitar actually works instead of just reading ignorant posts on random forums and then regurgitating the same misinformation.


What do you mean by binding? I've never heard that term for "open string sound".

And you're both kinda right I guess. He's just saying it could be a lazy way because instead of making the nut so that besides string spacing, you also need to file it down low enough to have good action but make sure you don't file it down too much so that it buzzes. He's referring to the fact the nut doesn't have to be worked on or cared about as much on a non zero fret guitar.
__________________
Check my Firebird build!-Comment on that bitch so I don't have to double post, even if it's a friendly "YOU SUCK!"

Upright fretted electric bass build!
Wisthekiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:01 AM   #33
Don't Panic Ok?
Clive Dunn
 
Don't Panic Ok?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Walmington-on-Sea
Zero frets are awesome.
__________________

DON'T PANIC! DON'T PANIC!
THEY DON'T LIKE IT UP 'EM!
Don't Panic Ok? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 09:19 AM   #34
Robbgnarly
Registered User
 
Robbgnarly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NSB, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisthekiller
What do you mean by binding? I've never heard that term for "open string sound".

And you're both kinda right I guess. He's just saying it could be a lazy way because instead of making the nut so that besides string spacing, you also need to file it down low enough to have good action but make sure you don't file it down too much so that it buzzes. He's referring to the fact the nut doesn't have to be worked on or cared about as much on a non zero fret guitar.

+1
i did not want to start a war, but my personal opinion is thet a Zero fret is the lazy way to to do it. It takes more time and effort to cut and fit a proper nut than to add another fret to do the job. I also think it makes the fret board look cheap (again just my opinion)
__________________
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Robbgnarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 09:40 AM   #35
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisthekiller
What do you mean by binding? I've never heard that term for "open string sound".

And you're both kinda right I guess. He's just saying it could be a lazy way because instead of making the nut so that besides string spacing, you also need to file it down low enough to have good action but make sure you don't file it down too much so that it buzzes. He's referring to the fact the nut doesn't have to be worked on or cared about as much on a non zero fret guitar.

Binding = string catching or binding on the nut. Open string sound = the open, unfretted notes.

And I really don't care what is his opinion of the zero fret installers motivations for installing it. There are obvious benefits to installing a zero fret. Besides, his proclamation that using a zero fret is the easy way is completely unfounded. And if it were truly the easy way, we'd see them on all sorts of cheap guitars, which is obviously not the case.

There are benefits to using a zero fret. Anyone who thinks the only benefit is less work to install is seriously ignorant on the subject. But I'm not surprised there is so much confusion on this here, it rarely gets discussed and zero frets are very uncommon. I don't blame you guys for not knowing much about it, but I do urge you to keep an open mind on the matter before coming to a conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
+1
i did not want to start a war, but my personal opinion is thet a Zero fret is the lazy way to to do it. It takes more time and effort to cut and fit a proper nut than to add another fret to do the job. I also think it makes the fret board look cheap (again just my opinion)

You can certainly have an opinion on how a zero fret looks, I can completely understand that. But as far as the install time is concerned, we're talking a difference of minutes here. It's not hard to cut a nut at all, so saying that cutting a nut is the harder way isn't really saying much to begin with.

Last edited by W4RP1G : 01-07-2013 at 09:47 AM.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #36
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
This kind of reminds me of the headless guitar debate. There are obvious benefits to choosing a headless guitar, which is why some people prefer them. But the majority of people can't get past how they look or tradition enough to give them a chance.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 12:33 PM   #37
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
This is a bit funny, a bit sad...

You guys are talking across each other, rather than to each other.

You're both right, and both wrong, since you're talking about two different things.

A zero fret is an 'easier' option than accurately cutting a nut slot to the correct height.

Point to kangaxxter.

But a zero fret does have an advantage as well, in that if you use the nut to ONLY set string spacing (by deliberately cutting it deep enough that the strings do no touch it at the bottom) you greatly reduce the chance of the string binding in the nut.

Point to W4RP1G

FFS!
__________________
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.
Arby911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:13 PM   #38
ilikekfc
Registered User
 
ilikekfc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
you are all forgetting the key thing, its personal opinion, some people might prefer it. no point arguing about something when neither of you are gonna win.
ilikekfc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #39
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
This is a bit funny, a bit sad...

You guys are talking across each other, rather than to each other.

You're both right, and both wrong, since you're talking about two different things.

A zero fret is an 'easier' option than accurately cutting a nut slot to the correct height.

Point to kangaxxter.

But a zero fret does have an advantage as well, in that if you use the nut to ONLY set string spacing (by deliberately cutting it deep enough that the strings do no touch it at the bottom) you greatly reduce the chance of the string binding in the nut.

Point to W4RP1G

FFS!
This isn't a competition. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it and bow out. But I am not wrong, and I'm trying to spread the correct information about zero frets. And I'm also try to do something about this attitude that whichever method is more difficult is the better method. If there was any truth to that, then the best guitars would have set necks, carved tops, hollow bodies, laminate necks, advanced wiring configs, ect..

To put it in a way that I'm sure everyone here can relate to, saying a zero fret is the lazy way to do it, therefore not as good, is like saying a bolt-on neck is lazy and not as good as a set neck because the method is less difficult.

And ilikekfc is 100% right, it all comes down to preference in the end.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #40
terribleguitar
Really terrible guitarist
 
terribleguitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Just the same way that a Les Paul guy might call Fender lazy or cheap for using a bolt-on neck? There is no "right", only different.

You have no idea what you're talking about. By your logic, every fret except for the nut is wrong.

I'm sorry, but this is pure BS.
terribleguitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:54 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.