Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Techniques
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-07-2013, 10:44 PM   #1
mryellow
Full-time pessimist
 
mryellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Getting out the tapping sound.

So I'm practicing tapping and I'm in a little dilemma. I can never get out a load enough sound from the strings. I can't figure out if I'm not tapping hard enough (this applies to both my right and left hand) or if I don't have enough gain and/or high enough volume. Please offer me some advice.

Edit: when playing metal-like tapping riffs, I have serious trouble not pulling off my right hand tapping finger and my second finger on my left hand at the same time.

Last edited by mryellow : 01-09-2013 at 04:40 AM.
mryellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:15 PM   #2
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
crank the gain not the volume, and when you tap the string pull-off sideways as to pluck the string so the next note sounds
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:21 PM   #3
Aays
Lurking as usual
 
Aays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Try setting it to the clean channel for clarity and tap slow but hard. Eventually this should build up strength over time as long as you make sure that you taps are clean (hence the clean channel). A handy bit of advice I heard was that your right hand taps should sound just as clean as your left hand taps so that a listener can't tell them apart.

Also yeah pull off after a tap if you aren't already, keeping the string moving is essential
__________________
*insert trying-too-hard-to-be-ironic link to my crappy music here*
Aays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:32 PM   #4
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aays
Try setting it to the clean channel for clarity and tap slow but hard. Eventually this should build up strength over time as long as you make sure that you taps are clean (hence the clean channel). A handy bit of advice I heard was that your right hand taps should sound just as clean as your left hand taps so that a listener can't tell them apart.

Also yeah pull off after a tap if you aren't already, keeping the string moving is essential

I thought people stopped with the clean channel crap a few years ago, you want to practice at the gain level you wish to perform at, anyway, clean channels don't work for basic two hand tapping, most guitars won't make much sound unless the gain is set on the high side, trying this on a clean channel will yes, get you tapping harder, but it also covers up mistakes, like hitting the string next to the string you are tapping (which is extremely common and sounds terrible with distortion) and gets you to tap harder than necessary which limits your speed. NOTE: I'm assuming this is about electric guitar high gain EVH style tapping
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:45 PM   #5
Aays
Lurking as usual
 
Aays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
I thought people stopped with the clean channel crap a few years ago, you want to practice at the gain level you wish to perform at, anyway, clean channels don't work for basic two hand tapping, most guitars won't make much sound unless the gain is set on the high side, trying this on a clean channel will yes, get you tapping harder, but it also covers up mistakes, like hitting the string next to the string you are tapping (which is extremely common and sounds terrible with distortion) and gets you to tap harder than necessary which limits your speed. NOTE: I'm assuming this is about electric guitar high gain EVH style tapping


You're right about it masking some mistakes, but tapping hard gets your fingers in gear and practicing that with a metronome and increasing the speed every once in a while leads to some pretty accurate tapping. My tapping was pretty sloppy till I tried this clean channel 'crap' out after hearing Tosin Abasi give this exact advice in a video... I think he seems like a dude who knows how to tap.

But hey, to each his own. Whatever works for you
__________________
*insert trying-too-hard-to-be-ironic link to my crappy music here*
Aays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:53 PM   #6
sonny bb
UG's New-ish Guy
 
sonny bb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
I thought people stopped with the clean channel crap a few years ago, you want to practice at the gain level you wish to perform at, anyway, clean channels don't work for basic two hand tapping, most guitars won't make much sound unless the gain is set on the high side, trying this on a clean channel will yes, get you tapping harder, but it also covers up mistakes, like hitting the string next to the string you are tapping (which is extremely common and sounds terrible with distortion) and gets you to tap harder than necessary which limits your speed. NOTE: I'm assuming this is about electric guitar high gain EVH style tapping

Disagree with everything. You can get tapped sounds on a pristine and clean setting, without a compressor or any other effects, you just have to learn to do it properly. Even two handed tapping. I agree with practicing how you perform, but get the technique down the proper way should come first. I suggest practicing on the clean channel to everyone. It helps not with learning to cover mistakes, but how to not make them. Some people use distortion as a crutch instead of a tool and it just leads to accepting sloppy playing as being "rock and roll".
__________________
:
"Stop shooting me!!!GAHHHH!!!"
<(0_0<)(>0_0)> FU
^(0_0)^^(0_0)^ Sion
(>0_0)><(0_0<) HA!!!
<(*~*)>
sonny bb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 12:32 AM   #7
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny bb
Disagree with everything. You can get tapped sounds on a pristine and clean setting, without a compressor or any other effects, you just have to learn to do it properly. Even two handed tapping. I agree with practicing how you perform, but get the technique down the proper way should come first. I suggest practicing on the clean channel to everyone. It helps not with learning to cover mistakes, but how to not make them. Some people use distortion as a crutch instead of a tool and it just leads to accepting sloppy playing as being "rock and roll".

dude clean channels cover as many mistakes as clean ones, just different ones, high gain channels will point out lack of precision, while clean channels point out failure to strike the necessary strings, as for whether or not you can tap on clean channels, yes you can, but it won't have the same umph that it has distorted, and learning to control the distortion is a big issue. As for the Tosin Abasi thing mentioned before, most very good guitarists I've met started as the guy who wanted full gain on everything, and the faster the better, but as they got better they found that they liked varying levels of gain for varying songs, and varying speeds to suit the music, and when they teach they assume that you are like they were and over compensate and tell you slow with a metronome on a clean channel is the best way to practice (because they hope the extreme will moderate you and you may practice it that way sometimes, which can be beneficial, but keep blasting it on full power frequently, because that's what they would do) but I've actually met more new guitarists who take those ideas to heart, and aren't the crazy dude who wants to play fast with high gain, and this advice seems to hurt them and slow their progress, what is most important is a balance of sometimes high gain, sometimes low gain, sometimes no gain, sometimes with a metronome, sometimes just for fun
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 12:58 AM   #8
Geldin
Registered User
 
Geldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mryellow
So I'm practicing tapping and I'm in a little dilemma. I can never get out a load enough sound from the strings. I can't figure out if I'm not tapping hard enough (this applies to both my right and left hand) or if I don't have enough gain and/or high enough volume. Please offer me some advice.

As long as you're sounding the correct note at a comparable volume, you're probably doing fine. When you play on a clean channel, there's not a lot of signal compression, so there will be significant dynamic differences between notes based on how much force was put into making those sounds. Especially on your smaller strings, it's hard to get a consistent sound when you start tapping on a clean channel. Basically, you want to be sounding the note fluently and making sure that you're using a scooping motion to pull off the string rather than just lifting off of the string. Once you've gotten that down, go ahead and see how it sounds with a more distorted sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
I thought people stopped with the clean channel crap a few years ago, you want to practice at the gain level you wish to perform at, anyway,

Yes and no. When you're learning the basics of a technique, you want to play on a clean channel so that you ensure that your notes are sounding properly. Otherwise, you're not learning your techniques right. Anything I can do distorted, I can do on a clean channel.

Quote:
but it also covers up mistakes, like hitting the string next to the string you are tapping (which is extremely common and sounds terrible with distortion) and gets you to tap harder than necessary which limits your speed. NOTE: I'm assuming this is about electric guitar high gain EVH style tapping

Like I said, ideally, you should be practicing on both channels. Playing on a clean channel ensures that you're hitting everything properly and can sound each note fluently. Playing with distortion and compression helps you recognize where your muting is bad. Neither one is more or less important.

Quote:
clean channels don't work for basic two hand tapping, most guitars won't make much sound unless the gain is set on the high side, trying this on a clean channel will yes, get you tapping harder,

The hell kind of guitar are you using? You can tap on anything. Hell, you can tap on an acoustic. Granted, gain will compress your signal, meaning everything will sound at a similar volume, making tapping easy, but it's entirely possible to tap on a clean channel and get an even volume. Check out some Scale the Summit.
__________________
I have an album. Listen to it.
The Sleeping Fury

The album is streaming here
Geldin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 01:13 AM   #9
sonny bb
UG's New-ish Guy
 
sonny bb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
dude clean channels cover as many mistakes as clean ones, just different ones, high gain channels will point out lack of precision, while clean channels point out failure to strike the necessary strings, as for whether or not you can tap on clean channels, yes you can, but it won't have the same umph that it has distorted, and learning to control the distortion is a big issue. As for the Tosin Abasi thing mentioned before, most very good guitarists I've met started as the guy who wanted full gain on everything, and the faster the better, but as they got better they found that they liked varying levels of gain for varying songs, and varying speeds to suit the music, and when they teach they assume that you are like they were and over compensate and tell you slow with a metronome on a clean channel is the best way to practice (because they hope the extreme will moderate you and you may practice it that way sometimes, which can be beneficial, but keep blasting it on full power frequently, because that's what they would do) but I've actually met more new guitarists who take those ideas to heart, and aren't the crazy dude who wants to play fast with high gain, and this advice seems to hurt them and slow their progress, what is most important is a balance of sometimes high gain, sometimes low gain, sometimes no gain, sometimes with a metronome, sometimes just for fun

I still disagree. But as long as you get the technique down the way you want it to sound,I guess you've done the right thing. Most new players I meet have a much more studious approach to it rather than the let's go fast and loud approach. They want to learn techniques and useful skills and the they use the wealth of videos out there and take them seriously. Practicing on the clean setting can tighten up techniques like tapping, sweeping and chordal arpeggios because they can correct mistakes instead of hiding them under loudness. Even just backing down the distortion can help de-mud more experienced players.
__________________
:
"Stop shooting me!!!GAHHHH!!!"
<(0_0<)(>0_0)> FU
^(0_0)^^(0_0)^ Sion
(>0_0)><(0_0<) HA!!!
<(*~*)>
sonny bb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 02:23 AM   #10
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
Anything I can do distorted, I can do on a clean channel.

Really? you can make pinch harmonics sound like they're worth a darn, you can sweep without a major loss in volume, and you can do Yngwie style tremolo runs that sound like much of anything without distortion...... and they all sound good and properly articulated on a clean channel....... well that's some majical BS
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 02:30 AM   #11
Geldin
Registered User
 
Geldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
Really? you can make pinch harmonics sound like they're worth a darn,

Yup.


Quote:
you can sweep without a major loss in volume

mhm

[/QUOTE]and you can do Yngwie style tremolo runs that sound like much of anything without distortion...... [/QUOTE]
Yeah.

Quote:
and they all sound good and properly articulated on a clean channel.......

More or less.

Quote:
well that's some majical BS

If by "magical BS" you mean I spent 10 hours a day practicing every day for the past three summers plus consistent about an hour a day of practice time during school, then yes. Magical BS indeed.

Now, that said, I'm not here to talk about how great I am (I rule, though. No question. ) That's all there as an indication of what practice can get you. If you'd like, I'll post some sound clips of me doing various things with clean and distorted tones (I've been meaning to do that anyway), but the point is, it's from practice. I use clean and distorted tones because it makes sense to me to do so and I'm rewarded with the ability to play anything I want regardless of what tone I'm running. My technique isn't limited by my tone. It's limited by how much I suck and need to practice more instead how much I suck at dialing in a tone that's worth two shits and a casket.
__________________
I have an album. Listen to it.
The Sleeping Fury

The album is streaming here
Geldin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 02:50 AM   #12
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
post some clips, I'm calling out your BS,.... I want to see a pinch harmonic on a clean channel that has a usable volume
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 02:59 AM   #13
Geldin
Registered User
 
Geldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Okey dokey. I'll see what I can do tomorrow morning. I'm moving back to school tomorrow night, so it might be a bit chaotic, but I'll try to get some clips posted. Just the three you mentioned (pinch harmonics, fast scales, and sweeping) or do you want a more expansive set of clips? I might not get it done tomorrow, so feel free to chuck in anything else you want a comparison clip of.

For the record, how are we defining clean? As in, flat EQ, no drive whatsoever, no effects? Or pure DI signal? Or just a generally undistorted tone? Also, how are we defining distorted? I run a number of different effects in my signal chain when I play leads, so there's a lot of compression going.

Just to point out again - this is not self-aggrandizement. I'm not making those claims so that you think I rule (again, I do. Unequivocally.)
__________________
I have an album. Listen to it.
The Sleeping Fury

The album is streaming here
Geldin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 03:11 AM   #14
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
Okey dokey. I'll see what I can do tomorrow morning. I'm moving back to school tomorrow night, so it might be a bit chaotic, but I'll try to get some clips posted. Just the three you mentioned (pinch harmonics, fast scales, and sweeping) or do you want a more expansive set of clips? I might not get it done tomorrow, so feel free to chuck in anything else you want a comparison clip of.

For the record, how are we defining clean? As in, flat EQ, no drive whatsoever, no effects? Or pure DI signal? Or just a generally undistorted tone? Also, how are we defining distorted? I run a number of different effects in my signal chain when I play leads, so there's a lot of compression going.

Just to point out again - this is not self-aggrandizement. I'm not making those claims so that you think I rule (again, I do. Unequivocally.)

that's cool, I'm defining clean as a DI guitar track, distorted is specifically using overdrive.... I know it makes it complicated since there is the jazz realm that isn't "distorted" but its effect heavy, and it make things possible that you can't do either DI or acoustic.... to be frank with no effects I don't think you can really use those techniques completely clean without them losing quite a bit...
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 03:21 AM   #15
Geldin
Registered User
 
Geldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I mean, there is a volume loss, especially with a raw DI. But I can definitely pull off audible pinch harmonics on a clean tone (I've even gotten them to work a few times on an acoustic, which was interesting, albeit totally impractical). Same goes for tapping, sweeping, and fast alternate picking. When it comes to playing fast, my focus is on relaxation and small movements, which lends itself to a softer volume (that said, I'm not unable to do dynamics at high speed; it's just that louder notes requires harder strokes, which itself requires more energy; most of the stuff I play at high speed tends to be distorted, so I rarely worry about volume at that point). I figure, since I have a volume knob, I can just roll that up as needed and play however is easiest for me and will result in the most comfortable and economical motion.

That said, it's impractical to play with a dry DI signal, so when you say "useable", I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about here. Does that just mean audible and relatively loud considering the inherent volume loss, or does that mean that I'm using a practical clean tone (as in, a mildly processed tone compared to a very heavily processed and compressed one) to perform these techniques? I realize this might come across as me trying to squirm out, but I'm genuinely unsure how much processing is considered clean compared to how little processing can be considered practical.
__________________
I have an album. Listen to it.
The Sleeping Fury

The album is streaming here
Geldin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 03:36 AM   #16
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
I mean, there is a volume loss, especially with a raw DI. But I can definitely pull off audible pinch harmonics on a clean tone (I've even gotten them to work a few times on an acoustic, which was interesting, albeit totally impractical). Same goes for tapping, sweeping, and fast alternate picking. When it comes to playing fast, my focus is on relaxation and small movements, which lends itself to a softer volume (that said, I'm not unable to do dynamics at high speed; it's just that louder notes requires harder strokes, which itself requires more energy; most of the stuff I play at high speed tends to be distorted, so I rarely worry about volume at that point). I figure, since I have a volume knob, I can just roll that up as needed and play however is easiest for me and will result in the most comfortable and economical motion.

That said, it's impractical to play with a dry DI signal, so when you say "useable", I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about here. Does that just mean audible and relatively loud considering the inherent volume loss, or does that mean that I'm using a practical clean tone (as in, a mildly processed tone compared to a very heavily processed and compressed one) to perform these techniques? I realize this might come across as me trying to squirm out, but I'm genuinely unsure how much processing is considered clean compared to how little processing can be considered practical.

no, no, no, you aren't squirming out of anything, we're just agreeing, I can do pinch harmonics on a DI track or an acoustic guitar rather easily same goes for the rest of the techniques, but I can't use them for anything practical because of the volume loss, when people say "clean" it makes me think completely clean, not reduced effects... I have just found that online everyone tells you to play on a "clean" channel and pure clean is no effects at all, and for somethings that's terribly impractical, plus huge amounts of distortion, reverb, and delay make every mistake in articulation ring out like a mofo
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 03:41 AM   #17
Geldin
Registered User
 
Geldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Kharmel
no, no, no, you aren't squirming out of anything, we're just agreeing, I can do pinch harmonics on a DI track or an acoustic guitar rather easily same goes for the rest of the techniques, but I can't use them for anything practical because of the volume loss, when people say "clean" it makes me think completely clean, not reduced effects... I have just found that online everyone tells you to play on a "clean" channel and pure clean is no effects at all, and for somethings that's terribly impractical, plus huge amounts of distortion, reverb, and delay make every mistake in articulation ring out like a mofo

Like I said, a DI track isn't practical for much of anything on its own anyway, so I wouldn't really criticize practicing on a clean tone based on the inadequacy of going au naturale versus using processing effects.

When I recommend playing on a clean channel, my though process is that there are no pretty effects to distract and there's no distortion in which fretting can hide. Like I said, you should ideally be able to play any technique audibly with any tone (though I reiterate that not every tone is practical) because the effects you use to process your signal are separate from your technique (not to say that technique doesn't effect your overall tone, just that effects and playing technique are utterly separate). Basically, you practice on a clean channel for fluency and a distorted channel for muting. Anyone who says different is (a) wrong and/or (b) Tom Hess with a new book to sell.
__________________
I have an album. Listen to it.
The Sleeping Fury

The album is streaming here
Geldin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 03:50 AM   #18
Bad Kharmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
Like I said, a DI track isn't practical for much of anything on its own anyway, so I wouldn't really criticize practicing on a clean tone based on the inadequacy of going au naturale versus using processing effects.

When I recommend playing on a clean channel, my though process is that there are no pretty effects to distract and there's no distortion in which fretting can hide. Like I said, you should ideally be able to play any technique audibly with any tone (though I reiterate that not every tone is practical) because the effects you use to process your signal are separate from your technique (not to say that technique doesn't effect your overall tone, just that effects and playing technique are utterly separate). Basically, you practice on a clean channel for fluency and a distorted channel for muting. Anyone who says different is (a) wrong and/or (b) Tom Hess with a new book to sell.

like I said we're agreeing, the more ways you practice the better, and when push comes to shove practice the part you want to play with the effects you're going to use.... also on the inverse classical guitar sounds like shit with distortion, they are different
Bad Kharmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2013, 06:51 AM   #19
Anon17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
The hell kind of guitar are you using? You can tap on anything. Hell, you can tap on an acoustic. Granted, gain will compress your signal, meaning everything will sound at a similar volume, making tapping easy, but it's entirely possible to tap on a clean channel and get an even volume. Check out some Scale the Summit.


This, I got a new acoustic recently and while it's definitely harder I can still play touchstyle on it with minimal loss of volume.
Anon17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 04:31 AM   #20
mryellow
Full-time pessimist
 
mryellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Thanks for the tips, very detailed and helpful.
mryellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.