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Old 03-01-2015, 10:54 AM   #1
Yuka66
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7-string and locking tuners

Hello,

After many years of playing on a Strat, I switched to a Music Man JP6 last year, and love it. I'm considering buying a 7-string guitar to complement it.

I really appreciate the JP6's setup, with a floating bridge and locking tuners but no locking nut. I can push and pull the whammy bar to extremes without any tuning stability problem, and replacing the strings is a breeze.

I'd like to find a 7-string guitar with a similar system (and avoid the hassle of a Floyd Rose). Of course, there's the JP7, but it's expensive and will obviously be very similar to my current guitar. I also found some Vigier Excalibur with locking tuners, but the bridge is a Kahler that can only go up (dive bombs) and not down.

Any other model you'd know about? It's mostly to play metal, my budget is still undefined but above $2000 / 2000. If all else fails, I'll fall back to a Floyd Rose-equipped model. Thanks.
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Last edited by Yuka66 : 03-01-2015 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:00 AM   #2
TheStig1214
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The problem is most (I'd guess 90% or higher) 7 strings with a trem are Floyds. If you like the setup you have now, I see no reason you wouldn't just get the JP7. If you like something, why change?

In that budget you could also go custom (Carvin would be your best bet) but they use Floyds or Hipshots for their standard bridge options.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:11 AM   #3
Yuka66
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Thanks for your answer. I may indeed end up getting a JP7, it I can find one not too expensive (like I got my JP6, at a lower price probably because of the release of the Majesty series).

As for a custom guitar, I'll consider it (I already toyed with websites like Halo Guitars) but I'm not familiar enough with some of the constitutive elements of a guitar. That's why, at least for now, I'm just looking for a regular guitar.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:17 AM   #4
K33nbl4d3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuka66
I also found some Vigier Excalibur with locking tuners, but the bridge is a Kahler that can only go up (dive bombs) and not down.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... Does the Kahler only raise the pitch and not lower it? Because I'm pretty sure no such bridge exists. As far as I know all Kahler trems are floating. I'm also reasonably sure Vigier use their own trems, not Kahlers...
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:32 AM   #5
Yuka66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K33nbl4d3
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... Does the Kahler only raise the pitch and not lower it? Because I'm pretty sure no such bridge exists. As far as I know all Kahler trems are floating. I'm also reasonably sure Vigier use their own trems, not Kahlers...


I don't have first-hand experience about this, but I read that the floating bridge can only go up because the guitar's body isn't hollowed below the bridge and, in the resting position, the bridge touches the body.

And thanks for the correction about the brand of the bridge, I must have confused it with something else.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuka66
I don't have first-hand experience about this, but I read that the floating bridge can only go up because the guitar's body isn't hollowed below the bridge and, in the resting position, the bridge touches the body.

And thanks for the correction about the brand of the bridge, I must have confused it with something else.


Floating bridges are just that, floating. The physical bridge isn't connected/screwed to the guitar in any way. A Floyd is a floating bridge. It makes contact with two support pegs that are attached to the guitar. The string tension and spring tension keep the bridge level against the pegs and the pegs are the pivot point. A floyd can go up (pull up on the trem bar, the pitch raises) and down (push the bar into the body, pitch goes down.) A Kahler is also floating. The bridge sits on a barrel spring, which also acts as a pivot point. The Barrel spring is on a bracket/plate that attaches to the guitar. You can go up and down on a Kahler as well (listen to Kerry King). I think Vigier uses a similar system to a Floyd but it doen't have a locking nut or fine tuners.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:57 AM   #7
K33nbl4d3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuka66
I don't have first-hand experience about this, but I read that the floating bridge can only go up because the guitar's body isn't hollowed below the bridge and, in the resting position, the bridge touches the body.

And thanks for the correction about the brand of the bridge, I must have confused it with something else.

Oh, that makes sense. I thought you meant up in pitch, rather than physically. From looking at them the Vigier trems do indeed appear to be non-floating in which case you won't be able to raise the pitch with it. So yeah if that's not what you want that's out.

For what it's worth, like Strat trems you should be able to set them up slightly away from the body to get a small upward range, which some people dig.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:50 PM   #8
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Get Agile guitars. End of discussion.
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Old 03-01-2015, 02:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kingjames123
Get Agile guitars. End of discussion.


Except Agiles top out around $1000, and once you get above $600-700 they don't really get any better as far as quality. He'd be much better off with a EBMM or Carvin.
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Old 03-01-2015, 02:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStig1214
Floating bridges are just that, floating. The physical bridge isn't connected/screwed to the guitar in any way. A Floyd is a floating bridge. It makes contact with two support pegs that are attached to the guitar. The string tension and spring tension keep the bridge level against the pegs and the pegs are the pivot point. A floyd can go up (pull up on the trem bar, the pitch raises) and down (push the bar into the body, pitch goes down.) A Kahler is also floating. The bridge sits on a barrel spring, which also acts as a pivot point. The Barrel spring is on a bracket/plate that attaches to the guitar. You can go up and down on a Kahler as well (listen to Kerry King). I think Vigier uses a similar system to a Floyd but it doen't have a locking nut or fine tuners.

Just want to point out some guitars with Floyds can only dive, these have no routing for the bridge to pull up.
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Old 03-01-2015, 02:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Just want to point out some guitars with Floyds can only dive, these have no routing for the bridge to pull up.

I think most are recessed these days, though, right?

Either way the Floyd issue's a moot point yet, since OP said they'd prefer to avoid Floyds and locking nuts unless there wasn't an alternative.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:06 PM   #12
dspellman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuka66

I really appreciate the JP6's setup, with a floating bridge and locking tuners but no locking nut. I can push and pull the whammy bar to extremes without any tuning stability problem, and replacing the strings is a breeze.


The trick is to have those locking tuners on the most straight-pull headstock you can find, and a very smooth nut. You want to avoid any cause for the strings to bind. Other than that, almost any guitar body/neck will do.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStig1214
Except Agiles top out around $1000, and once you get above $600-700 they don't really get any better as far as quality. He'd be much better off with a EBMM or Carvin.


Neither the brand nor the quality levels are an issue (I've got seven Carvins and...lessee...four Agiles at the moment). If you have big bucks you have more opportunities. It's really more a case of selecting the design. From $325 to their $1299 top price, Agiles are difficult to beat, but you still have to pick the right design. Most Carvins start above $800 and can easily cruise right up past the $2K mark, and you have the same challenge. You're in good shape either way.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K33nbl4d3
I think most are recessed these days, though, right?

Either way the Floyd issue's a moot point yet, since OP said they'd prefer to avoid Floyds and locking nuts unless there wasn't an alternative.

Yes most are, but not all
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:18 PM   #15
Yuka66
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Thanks for those answers. I'm not very familiar with some of the brands you suggested, and will find out more about them.

Any further advice is still welcome of course.
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Old Today, 03:43 AM   #16
Yuka66
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Small update, I spent some time on Carvin's website, they seem to have some models with a Floyd Rose bridge but no locking nut (locking tuners instead). That's a start, thanks again.
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