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Old 01-15-2013, 08:33 AM   #21
20Tigers
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OMFG!!!! AAAARRRGGHHHH!!
Was typing an epic post (even by my own standards) on chord progressions covering everything in detail from cadences, to circle progressions, voice leading, harmonic function, diatonic chord substitution, wider harmonic structure all in one comprehensive explanation.

Thumb drifted to the touch pad on my laptop and somehow I got taken to the ad link leaving UG. When I clicked back - it was all gone. **** it. No one would have read it anyway it was way too long.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20Tigers
OMFG!!!! AAAARRRGGHHHH!!
Was typing an epic post (even by my own standards) on chord progressions covering everything in detail from cadences, to circle progressions, voice leading, harmonic function, diatonic chord substitution, wider harmonic structure all in one comprehensive explanation.

Thumb drifted to the touch pad on my laptop and somehow I got taken to the ad link leaving UG. When I clicked back - it was all gone. **** it. No one would have read it anyway it was way too long.

AAWWWW!! I would've read that post... Oh well..
What browser are you using? If it's Firefox or Chrome, search for Lazarus. It will autosave whatever you've typed into a text area every minute or so, so that you can restore posts when something like this happens again.

Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/...fmgopdkppkifgno
Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/firef...-form-recovery/
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20Tigers
OMFG!!!! AAAARRRGGHHHH!!
Was typing an epic post (even by my own standards) on chord progressions covering everything in detail from cadences, to circle progressions, voice leading, harmonic function, diatonic chord substitution, wider harmonic structure all in one comprehensive explanation.

Thumb drifted to the touch pad on my laptop and somehow I got taken to the ad link leaving UG. When I clicked back - it was all gone. **** it. No one would have read it anyway it was way too long.

I would've read it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:30 AM   #24
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i didn't even read that post except to see why somebody quoted it tbh
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:42 PM   #25
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And then there's stuff like Dream Theater and Scale the Summit. Very complex...





Complex

Yes, I know.

But really, it's not only all about the chords. You can do some cool stuff with only four chords. For example the chorus of "Still Loving You" is four chords and works well. It's not only about the chords. It's about similar melodies, sounds and rhythms that every pop song has, and the lack of dynamics. It's so easy to make a decent sounding melody over I-V-vi-IV and people forget the old songs and they can reuse the melodies. For now I can't think of songs that have similar melody, chord progression, rhythm and overall feeling but I know I have heard many of them.

OK, there's two songs that come into my mind with obvious (and similar) melodies over vi-IV-I-V. Train - "Drive by" and Tacabro - "Tacata". Both have the same melody, "Tacata" is just in double tempo. That melody is the most obvious that I can think of over vi-IV-I-V. And I'm sure there are dozens of songs with similar chorus melodies.

If you learn more theory, every chord progression will not anymore sound that magical. At least you will be able to hear every chord progression used in every song. Some day I thought all the progressions Dream Theater used were magical. But now I have found them in many different songs. They still sound good but not like I would think "How did they do that?" Maybe it would just be good not to know all the chord progression so even a simple four chord progression would sound awesome and you wouldn't even notice that the songs sound the same.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
It's not only about the chords.


Following this line of thought, such things as vamps wouldn't even exist. After all, who but the most amateurish, unoriginal, downright stupid musicians would just bash away at one chord for the entire song?
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:27 PM   #27
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Zorn

Fuck me, John Zorn is messed up. I listened to Hockey a while back and I was all like :|
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:31 PM   #28
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:01 AM   #29
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Fuck me, John Zorn is perfect.


fixed
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:17 AM   #30
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A few notes on my response before you read it:

1) This is all speaking in terms of major keys. Much of it is relevant to minor keys, but don't worry about them yet.
2) When I use arabic numerals, I'm referring to the notes of the major scale. So, in C major, 1 is C, 2 is D, 3 is E, etc.
3) When I write out root/third/fifth, I'm talking about chord tones. These are in relation to the root of whatever chord you're on. So, the root, third and fifth of a V chord are scale degrees 5 7 and 2.
4) This is a pretty dense read, so PLEASE take your time reading this. There's a lot of information to take in. If it starts to feel overwhelming, just stop and let some of it sink in. Ask a question or two if you have to before you move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbit10
V to I.. Does I to V count as well? And does V - IV - I count? Having different chords inbetween, but resolving eventually to the I? (Or the reverse, I to V)
I'm fairly new to harmony/chord theory, have recently learned how to harmonize the major scale and how to apply the roman numerals to it, but resolutions and cadences are still new to me.
I mean I to V is still effective harmonic motion, but it's entirely different because it's retrogressive, rather than progressive (a retrogression instead of a progression; in other words, leading away from the root instead of towards it).

Here's a quick lesson on harmonic function. There are three basic harmonic functions; tonic, dominant, and predominant. Tonic-functioning chords generally have a resolved sound, therefore they don't have a strong "pull," towards another chord. This "pull" is more accurately described as harmonic tension. In terms of the major scale, your tonic chord tones (1 3 5) are resolution notes, rather than tension notes. 4 and 7 are the strongest tension notes because they are a half-step away from the tonic chord tones. 2 and 6 are also used as tension notes, but they aren't as strong because they are whole steps away from the tonic chord tones.

So, with the idea of the 4 and 7 being strong tension notes, this leads us to the idea of "dominant function." The fifth scale degree is called the dominant, and likewise the chord built on it is the dominant chord. Dominant function chords have the strongest resolution to the tonic. This is what I was saying about the V to I resolution. If we look at a basic dominant chord (V, built with scale degrees 5 7 2), you see that two of the notes are potential tension notes (7 and 2). The 5 is actually a pretty stable note, since it's part of the tonic triad. 2 actually doesn't add that much tension in this case, since the fifth of any chord (2 is the fifth in a V chord) is generally pretty stable and doesn't quite function like the third does (the third in a V chord is the 7th scale degree, which is also known as the leading tone which is the strongest tension in tonal harmony). 7 is what defines dominant function (even though 5 is technically called the dominant).

Now, if you understand all this, let's take it one step further. I mentioned that the 4th scale degree is the second strongest tension. So now let's look at this in a dominant context. Let's stick one of these on a V chord to give it more tension. So now we have 5 7 2 4. Notice that these notes are all a third apart. In terms of chord tones, this is root, third, fifth, flat seventh (1 3 5 b7 makes it easier to visualize). If you know your chord construction, you would recognize this as a dominant seventh chord. This type of chord is technically called a major minor 7th chord (so your four basic seventh chords are major seventh, minor seventh, major minor seventh and minor major seventh, labeled as maj7, m7, 7, mmaj7 respectively). That's all semantics though. If you are using this chord with a dominant function, just call it a dominant seventh chord. Anyway, back on topic...

Something that gives the V7 (dominant seventh) chord a particularly strong type of tension has to do with just the 4 and 7, which are the two tension notes. Conveniently enough, they are a tritone apart (7 up to 4 is a diminished fifth and 4 up to 7 is an augmented fourth). The tritone is an interesting interval because it is an inversion of itself. Interval inversions are like this: C up to G is a perfect fifth, but C down to G (or G up to C if you prefer to stay consistent with ascending intervals) is a perfect fourth. Notice how it's the same two notes, but it's a different interval in different directions. However, the tritone is a tritone either way you look at it. 7 to 4 and 4 to 7 are both tritones. It also helps that the two notes resolve in opposite directions (4 down to 3 and 7 up to 1). If you ever study counterpoint, you will learn that contrary motion (i.e. two notes moving in opposite directions simultaneously) is generally smoother and fuller than parallel motion (i.e. two notes moving in the same direction simultaneously), especially when the notes move by the same interval.

Here's a little bit of chromatic harmony for you if you're interested. Since the V7 has a tritone in it, and the tritone is an inversion of itself, there is another dominant seventh chord that uses the exact same tritone, except the inversion. Instead of 7 being the third of the chord and 4 being the seventh, it's the opposite. This chord is called the "tritone substitution" and is conveniently a tritone away from the V chord. It is labeled V7sub in roman numeral notation and is rooted on the b2 (so in the key of C, it would be a Db7 chord, or Db F Ab Cb (or you can just call the Cb a B because that's how it functions).

Sorry for writing a novel and sorry if most of that is way over your head. Please don't just read all of that and question everything you thought you knew about music. Take it in bits and pieces. Fully understand a concept and be able to hear it, sing it, transpose it, etc. before you move onto the next concept or else you're going to get really lost.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsonStevens
Following this line of thought, such things as vamps wouldn't even exist. After all, who but the most amateurish, unoriginal, downright stupid musicians would just bash away at one chord for the entire song?

Yes, but I said it's not only about chords. Chords do matter. And you can do plenty with just one chord. But the less chords you have, the more interesting the melody/sounds have to be to sound good. Some examples of "one chord" songs: Led Zeppelin - "Whole Lotta Love" is pretty much one chord (or two chords but it would really sound the same if you only played E chord behind the vocal melody). Same with Guess Who - "American Woman", it wouldn't change how the song sounds like if you only played E chord behind the song and not the two power chords (B and D) before the E chord. They are both one riff songs too.

But chords aren't everything. As I said, you can do cool stuff with I-V-vi-IV. It doesn't sound overused only because of the chords, it also sounds overused because of the melodies and sounds and the lack of dynamics. RHCP - "Under the Bridge" is a good example of a song that uses the four chord progression well. It fits the song and doesn't sound overused.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
If you learn more theory, every chord progression will not anymore sound that magical. At least you will be able to hear every chord progression used in every song. Some day I thought all the progressions Dream Theater used were magical. But now I have found them in many different songs. They still sound good but not like I would think "How did they do that?" Maybe it would just be good not to know all the chord progression so even a simple four chord progression would sound awesome and you wouldn't even notice that the songs sound the same.

I disagree. Learning the theory and understanding chord progressions gave me another way of appreciating a good chord progression.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by 20Tigers
I disagree. Learning the theory and understanding chord progressions gave me another way of appreciating a good chord progression.

Yes. Of course. But you start hearing the same chords used in every song. But you are right. I only used to listen to the melody and guitar riff. Now I can listen to chord progressions and analyze them. And if I find a cool chord progression, I just listen to it and pick the chords up. Yeah, you kind of listen to the music another way when you know what's happening in the song and can analyze it. I didn't mean that knowing theory is bad. Everything just sounds different now. And I wasn't serious when I said the last sentence.
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Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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Old 07-18-2013, 08:15 AM   #34
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What are common NOTE progressions when trying to outline a chord ?

Can anyone let me know What notes you like to outlline ?

Last edited by BostonStrong5 : 07-18-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:23 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by BostonStrong5
What are common NOTE progressions when trying to outline a chord /


You mean an arpeggio?

Progression isn't a term that applies to individual notes. Strictly speaking, it doesn't even apply to all chord sequences.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:40 AM   #36
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No just when you pick up a guitar what and say you want to play in A mixo what notes do you like to outline that sound good together ?
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:50 AM   #37
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^^^ Chord tones with other tones to link them together.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:16 AM   #38
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Yeah it's a myth that only jazz players follow the changes.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonStrong5
No just when you pick up a guitar what and say you want to play in A mixo what notes do you like to outline that sound good together ?

Id never pick up my guitar and say "A mixo" unless I'm smacked and down to do a 15 minute improv that ends up sounding bad do to my own lack of ability.


TS; It's all about the voicing. If you just play the open shapes of C Am G and F then it will sound bland and generic and make teenage girls wet. But if you add a little voice leading, maybe walk that bass line down, then it'll sound unique-er and still make them girls slippery.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by macashmack
Id never pick up my guitar and say "A mixo" unless I'm smacked and down to do a 15 minute improv that ends up sounding bad do to my own lack of ability.


TS; It's all about the voicing. If you just play the open shapes of C Am G and F then it will sound bland and generic and make teenage girls wet. But if you add a little voice leading, maybe walk that bass line down, then it'll sound unique-er and still make them girls slippery.

Do both options result in the same level of female wetness? If so, TS, then just go for the easier option. You only want to exert the least amount of effort for the same result/affect (or is it effect)?
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