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Old 01-14-2013, 12:03 PM   #1
AnnihiSlateR
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Munruthel

Any fans? Former Nokturnal Mortum and Astrofaes Drummer who has also played with Runes of Dianceht, Lucifugum, Mistigo Varggoth Darkestra and Темнозорь.
He also plays Synth and other stuff and has a solo project which is a sort of symphonic folk metal.
I was listening to ВЕРОломство earlier, and though the project was worth sharing.




Also, controversial time now. Their/His cover of Bathory's The Lake (With Wulfstan from Forefather on vocals) is better than the Original.

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Old 01-14-2013, 01:46 PM   #2
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Interesting point I would like to make AnnihiSlater....












Sincere question I would love to hear some differe perspectives on;

- Where does "folk" begin an end ie Why is one "Folk" Metal band going to sound 10X more genuine then another
- Do you find that any of the above projects have similar sounds to Munruthel?

Most Folk Metal sounds incredibly disingenuous to me. For a genre that wants to sound ancient and traditional a lot of it sounds artificial and plagues by a try-hard sound. Unfortunately Munruthel has that sound for me, so I'm interested in your answers to the above questions.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #3
AnnihiSlateR
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I'm not entirely sure how to address this, but I'll give it a go.

I guess the thing to remember is it's folk metal. Metal, and certainly black metal (which is often the genre chosen for the fusion) is quite modern.
Folk itself doesn't necessarily have to mean it's an ancient piece of music, there's new folk music being made all the time, and a lot of popular folk songs only date back a hundred years or so.
Folk is a very broad term anyway.
There's the aesthetic side of folk, the tin whistles, bodhrans and pipes. Whilst this isn't always indicative of folk, it's certainly true to say that most countries will have it's own folk tradition and stereotypical sound, the bagpipes in Scotland, Harp in Wales, Melodeon in England for example. But a lot of folk I listen to is just vocal and guitar, which brings me to the next point.
It's often a very vocal driven genre as it is basically a genre built around songs. There are whole collections of folk songs (Child Ballads, Murder Ballads are published collections), and often folk songs can go by different names, but still be the same song. (The Loneley Willow, The Outlandish Knight, Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight and so on). Different regions have different songs based on their history, heritage and folklore. For example there's a lot of songs from the north of England about Industry, Weaving, Spinning, Coal, Railways etc. Even some songs just about being from Lancashire, and making use of the Lancashire dialect. And some times it's more than just music, it's almost about preservation and not forgetting tradition.
Like this song for example is basically about the dialect, and to me it's as much a window to the past as it is entertainment or art.


So to tie this into folk metal. Where does folk start and end and why do certain bands sound more genuine? I guess it all comes down to said bands knowledge of folk traditions, how it's integrated, and really just how it blends as a whole. Obviously the best people to judge are people with a knowledge of the tradition being fused, but for the most part it's obvious when it's a shit song with a flute over the top playing a generic melody. It's just for the sake of sounding like folk.
However take the symphonic metal element out of the first munruthel track and you basically have a russian folk song, and quite evocative of the style of singing and melodies found in Russian folk music. I'm new to that sort of sound, and I'm sure Emenious will be a better judge of it than me, but it feels genuine. But the thing to remember is that folk metal is a fusion genre. So it's never going to be purely folk, or purely metal.

As for the tracks you picked sounding like Munruthel, Waylander is a bit moot due to it celebrating a completely different culture. As is the Daemonia Nymphe track (not to mention not metal either).
But looking at Temnozor, Kroda and Negura Bunget. Negura Bunget has a somewhat symphonic sound to Munruthel, with the strings and big uplifting Brass motifs.
I feel that melodically, the synth line at the star of the Temnozor track isn't too disimilar from the melody of the Munruthel track. I was kind of hoping you'd picked a track of Horizons as Munruthel drummed on that album so I could have a pedantic similarity :P
There's less in common with the Kroda track though.

I'll leave it at that for now, but if you want me to elaborate on anything, or have further questions then go for it.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #4
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You make a good point about the more recent Folk and how a lot of it really is the adoption of those lyrical traditions given instruments behind it. I didn't actively make that connection.

It still sounds disingenuous to me, but it probably stems from it just not being my thing.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:50 PM   #5
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That's a bold statement regarding The Lake, especially since it's a favourite of mine from Quorthon's viking era.

I will come back in a moment.


EDIT: While a decent cover, I can't think of any reason why I would listen to it rather than the ethereal, majestic original recording.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #6
AnnihiSlateR
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Well I did warn controversy was afoot

I've never really gotten on with Blood on Ice really. I also don't think the vocal was great on the original. I know Bathory has literally never been about vocal quality, but blood on ice seemed sub par in general.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:15 PM   #7
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I can almost see why you'd think like that about Blood On Ice, but not quite. I love it.


To move back to the topic on folk metal. I think there's a very fine line between gimmicky and genuinely good music when it comes to the hybrid of metal with traditional folk. Especially since I'm currently on a folk binge, I'm struggling within regarding this problem as I want to incorporate elements from British traditional folk to this project of mine. (First I need to learn to play guitar well, though, which is a long and on-going journey.) If I had to pick one album which executes perfectly between metal and folk, it's one might not instantly think of as a folk metal record: Solstice's New Dark Age. (Disclaimer: It's not a folk metal record.)

Take Blackthorne for example. There's no special traditional instruments, merely an acoustic guitar which could perhaps be likened to a lute. Despite this the track has this sound of yore. A sophisticated wind from the ancient times. Listening to the metal tracks on the album, the "folkiest" moment is the intro to Hammer Of Damnation. Even it is done with such taste and sense of melody, it's far from cheesy.

It's a difficult subject.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:20 PM   #8
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Dexy's Midnight Runners - Too-Rye-Ay

I find this album to be more Folky then a huge chunk of most Folk Metal.

It's just really damn hard to make Folk Metal that impresses me. You have to first remain Metal and not Nuclear Blast trash, you have to make a genuine "Folk" sound (what ever that may be) and then you have to tie all of that into one neat package with clear direction.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #9
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I like Astrofaes (I think you may have introduced me to them, also) and this Munruthel is sounding quite good to me as well.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #10
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I'll have to mention Nokturnal Mortum's The Voice of Steel which is borderline cheesy, but still works. Also selected works of Moonsorrow go into this category.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:54 PM   #11
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The Voice of Steel is bad ass despite the questionable keyboards which I immediately forgive because even they contribute to the albums grandeur.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:06 PM   #12
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Pardon me for constantly keeping this off-topic, but let me take this opportunity to hype the track Україна from The Voice of Steel. It starts out cheesy and bouncy as fuck, but then evolves into something glorious like the folk metal equivalent of one Land of the Dead. Not quite as sophisticated and more direct in delivery, but still incredible.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:25 PM   #13
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I wish the chorus in Україна would last forever.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:27 PM   #14
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I don't know how anything in that song can be called cheesy. The part at the beginning is quite bombastic, and I feel that the band takes it quite seriously. Why is it that everything with a little aesthetic flair is automatically dubbed as cheesy? I understand that symphonic and folk-y bits can definitely be overdone and sound saturated and terrible, but no metal band should be afraid to splash a little color on the gray.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:30 PM   #15
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That is what I was referring to earlier. For me it's quite easy for Folk to jump into the cheese/disingenuous territory. I want to track down where that fine line begins and ends.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kytokinesis
I don't know how anything in that song can be called cheesy. The part at the beginning is quite bombastic, and I feel that the band takes it quite seriously. Why is it that everything with a little aesthetic flair is automatically dubbed as cheesy? I understand that symphonic and folk-y bits can definitely be overdone and sound saturated and terrible, but no metal band should be afraid to splash a little color on the gray.
I've grown gray and bitter.


I'll bring forth a name I already mentioned:


Flair that doesn't come across all cheesy. Also synth pads that work! How? I don't know, but they do. You're on a difficult quest for truth, VG.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:50 PM   #17
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I guess what I'm looking for are albums that play both spectrums, so I can methodically point out what causes the leap from one side to the next.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #18
AnnihiSlateR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kepulix

To move back to the topic on folk metal. I think there's a very fine line between gimmicky and genuinely good music when it comes to the hybrid of metal with traditional folk. Especially since I'm currently on a folk binge, I'm struggling within regarding this problem as I want to incorporate elements from British traditional folk to this project of mine. (First I need to learn to play guitar well, though, which is a long and on-going journey.) If I had to pick one album which executes perfectly between metal and folk, it's one might not instantly think of as a folk metal record: Solstice's New Dark Age. (Disclaimer: It's not a folk metal record.)

Take Blackthorne for example. There's no special traditional instruments, merely an acoustic guitar which could perhaps be likened to a lute. Despite this the track has this sound of yore. A sophisticated wind from the ancient times. Listening to the metal tracks on the album, the "folkiest" moment is the intro to Hammer Of Damnation. Even it is done with such taste and sense of melody, it's far from cheesy.

It's a difficult subject.

What sort of British folk are you listening to? I can upload some stuff for you if you'd like? My big issue with incorporating English folk (as British covers the musical traditions of many countries with noticeable differences) is that by and large the stuff I know is acoustic guitar and perhaps a melodeon, so from an aesthetic point of view it's quite hard to incorporate. I think it just ends up being the melodies and songs.
But then you get something like this

which doesn't feel overly authentic, or particularly great.

Then again, to counter that Forefather doing Miri it is works really well, so I guess there's a large element of how well you pull it off.


As for Solstice it's as good a call as any. It does have a real Bard like feel a lot of the time. And the acoustic guitar is pretty much a traditional instrument and certainly a staple of folk music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kepulix
Pardon me for constantly keeping this off-topic, but let me take this opportunity to hype the track Україна from The Voice of Steel. It starts out cheesy and bouncy as fuck, but then evolves into something glorious like the folk metal equivalent of one Land of the Dead. Not quite as sophisticated and more direct in delivery, but still incredible.

Definitely. I had the album on a few weeks back and I remember thinking how well it holds up 3 years down the line. The bit in Валькирия from the Reggae section onwards is my favourite bit though, after the pink floyd worship it builds up and the synth plays an absolutely gorgeous melody that's really subtle but really emotive. I remember being almost brought to tears one night listening to it walking home in the dark, there's a stretch of my street that's woodland either side and it's really dark and quiet at night, and everything felt so still a peaceful and that section kicked in and it really hit me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireGoldfish
I wish the chorus in Україна would last forever.

This.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnihiSlateR
What sort of British folk are you listening to? I can upload some stuff for you if you'd like?
So far it's been more of the Celtic heritage. I'm looking for good recordings of the Child Ballads in particular. Any recommendations? I would also appreciate any good stuff in general.

But like I said, I'm still struggling with the idea. For the record, I'm not trying to write folk metal per se, it's just an opportunity I would like to study. Going to experiment with DADGAD, or rather CGCFGC tuning as the idea is to do more melodic epic doom/heavy metal than anything. Think Solstice, Atlantean Kodex, Primordial, Arckanum, Angel Witch and Brocas Helm put together. Of course it could turn out something completely different.


Also, that Oakenshield's quite terrible haha
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:18 PM   #20
AnnihiSlateR
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Nic Jones and Martin Simpson are usually pretty good for Child Ballads. I'll have a rummage through my library and see what I can come up with.

Edit: Martin Simpson - The Bramble Briar & Prodigal Son
Nic Jones - Ballads and Songs

those three should tide you over nicely.

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