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Old 01-19-2013, 09:28 PM   #21
TheHydra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
are you really gonna tell me this? isn't that like the thesis for the last 3 months of every serious post i've had on this forum?

use your ears and understanding of intervals and movement. you'll have a lot better results than a "scale vocabulary"

a scale vocabulary is just a series of presets for people not intuitive enough to create their own sounds and explore all of the options available.

One thing I've started doing is taking a melody I want to study and just playing with it for an hour minimum each day, for 7 straight days. Exploring different meters, lengthening and shortening notes, reversing the note order, changing intervals, playing different parts of it simultaneously, playing it over as many different backing tracks as I can find, humming it over all the songs I listen to, and there are probably still many things I haven't even tried yet.

There are so many things you can learn from a simple melody alone and so many things you can do with one that it's baffling why anyone, myself included, ever tried to learn by playing scales. All you need is a song you like and some basic human curiosity.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #22
cdgraves
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I really don't understand why aural and formal relationships would be mutually exclusive. Aural perception is a given, ideally. It shouldn't bear repeating that music is for listening.

Learning and practicing scales/arpeggios/chords doesn't make you any less creative, unless your musical time is extremely limited and practicing concepts competes with otherwise enjoyable rocking out. But I don't tend to give advice on that assumption.

Frankly, if someone finds new concepts limiting, they are simply artistically lazy. There's nothing wrong or limiting whatsoever about knowing the ins and outs of music theory (which goes far beyond "what's this chord/scale called"). You can make a case that doing things "authentically" is better, but would you tell a carpenter to ditch the power drill and lash some logs together the hard way?
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:37 AM   #23
Mister A.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
Key and scale differ considerably...

Really? No shit.


And on topic, the picture is really just showing all of the notes in the key of C major on a specific area of the fretboard. Or maybe the whole fretboard depending on what website/book you're looking at. It's not showing the scale per se, rather what notes are diatonic. Play from one C to another C an octave (or two. Or three. Or four if you're particularly insane/awesome.) higher. Then BAM! you have your C Major scale.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:58 AM   #24
Hail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
I really don't understand why aural and formal relationships would be mutually exclusive. Aural perception is a given, ideally. It shouldn't bear repeating that music is for listening.

Learning and practicing scales/arpeggios/chords doesn't make you any less creative, unless your musical time is extremely limited and practicing concepts competes with otherwise enjoyable rocking out. But I don't tend to give advice on that assumption.

Frankly, if someone finds new concepts limiting, they are simply artistically lazy. There's nothing wrong or limiting whatsoever about knowing the ins and outs of music theory (which goes far beyond "what's this chord/scale called"). You can make a case that doing things "authentically" is better, but would you tell a carpenter to ditch the power drill and lash some logs together the hard way?


music theory is far more relevant on a larger scale than scales. once you learn your intervals appropriately, you have a line of reference to the only 3 scales that matter (major, minor, chromatic) and you're fully functional to dive into literally everything else.

there's nothing "authentic" about my line of thought - many artist far better than me would disagree with it - but it is based heavily on the fact that, if it's been dreamt up theoretically, you can hear it with a strong ear. however, if you approach a difficult project with strong logic and a poor ear, it's impossible to execute properly.

if you spend 10 minutes on this forum, you'll find that aural perception is extremely far from a given. this is the assumption where we differ, and other than that we'd be on the same page. call me cynical, but it's a lot easier to see numbers and lines than it is to think in sounds, keys, and movements on a grand scale.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #25
mikeyhavoc
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Lightbulb :)

Begin by reading the scale diagram on the low e string. see that it starts on g but that is not the root note, which is highlighted orange "c" on the 3rd fret of the a string. (opposed to the notes that either ascend or descend in accordance with that scale(c major...) Always identify the root note. in this case C. Then begin the scales pattern and you will see the root note appears again in a different position on the 8th note and continues in this pattern over the entire fret board

Last edited by mikeyhavoc : 01-20-2013 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Grammar~
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:13 PM   #26
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I use that website all the time. Even forgot the name of it so this thread was of considerable help to me too
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:18 PM   #27
mdc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas_Erak_Fan
I'm looking at the scale this site gave me and I don't quite understand.

I thought you start the scale off with C. Here they're saying fret 5 high E string which is note A.

Can someone enlighten me?

What if the underlying chord was static Am vamp? Or Dm vamp? Or Em vamp? Or Fmaj vamp? Or Gmaj vamp?

What cunting scale do you think it's gonna be then, hmm?
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
What if the underlying chord was static Am vamp? Or Dm vamp? Or Em vamp? Or Fmaj vamp? Or Gmaj vamp?

What cunting scale do you think it's gonna be then, hmm?

Uh... Qb Dodecalydian?
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:02 PM   #29
cdgraves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
if you spend 10 minutes on this forum, you'll find that aural perception is extremely far from a given. this is the assumption where we differ, and other than that we'd be on the same page. call me cynical, but it's a lot easier to see numbers and lines than it is to think in sounds, keys, and movements on a grand scale.



I suppose I should qualify: GOOD musicianship presumes aural development. Any theory class has a substantial aural component. And yes, it's definitely the most intimidating part.

It's also much easier to explain theory concepts via internet. Although, if I had the time it'd be fun to play example tracks for whatever concepts need explaining. Writing, playing, and singing examples is a really good way to get familiar with new ideas, too.

Last edited by cdgraves : 01-21-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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