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Old 01-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #21
Mister A.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
wait wtf is a major 2

I do believe he is referring to the term of 'major 2nd.'
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister A.J.
I do believe he is referring to the term of 'major 2nd.'


wait wtf is a major 2nd
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:23 AM   #23
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A major second is the second interval in a major scale. The reason for the major is because if you look at it in terms of every single note from root to octave having an interval (not to be used all in one scale, but for the purpose of explaining what intervals are in any given scale), so a half step above the root is a minor second, next is major 2nd, minor 3rd, major 3rd, Perfect 4th, diminished 5th perfect 5th and so on. It's not really that important, as in the context of the major scale you can say flat 2nd to mean the same thing as minor second, or you can just say 2nd to mean major 2nd.

And yeah, that particular chord can be used as an F7 or Fm7, which aren't always the prettiest chords when strummed all slow and mellow-like. But, they can be very nice sounding in their own use (like a V7-I chord movement sounds very resolved, tension release etc). Unless he's using that chord only, just moved around the neck- it can still sound interesting, it just sorta defies basic theory (Like a lot of blues progressions, you might have A7-D7-E7 type progressions, which sounds good but doesn't quite fit in with what we learned about the one dominant 7th formed from a major scale).
I think if the song itself sounds bad, maybe let him know. But sometimes a song can sound downright cool while using the shittiest sounding chords. (Like some bands have used Diminished chords in ways that don't sound good neccesarily, but are really cool sounding). It just depends on the sound you're going for.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 AM   #24
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so is the minor second the 2nd note in the minor scale
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:19 AM   #25
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Strangely enough no, which is probably the reason a lot of people don't get why there's a major and minor second. The minor scale uses a minor 3rd, minor 6th and minor 7th. Phrygian (and any scale that has only a half step between root and second note) uses a minor second. I think the point was just so that one could say what intervals were in a scale with the only reference point being the root (as flat 2nd would be based off the major scale) and without just saying the notes. Therefore you could say the major scale has a major second, major 3rd, p4th, p5th, major 6th and so on, if someone you were explaining too didn't know the scale but knew the interval names (which doesn't happen all that often... thus it's not super important but kind of interesting, lol)
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:28 AM   #26
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^^^ I think you mean a flat 2nd. This note is not called a "minor" 2nd as it is not derived from the minor scale.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:43 AM   #27
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wow i can't believe you guys don't understand rhetorical questions. it's just a 2nd.

and tbh i call it a minor 2nd out of habit (b or diminished would be more appropriate), but that doesn't mean there's such a thing as a major 2nd unless you're just trying to be confusing to beginners lol
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
wow i can't believe you guys don't understand rhetorical questions. it's just a 2nd.

and tbh i call it a minor 2nd out of habit (b or diminished would be more appropriate), but that doesn't mean there's such a thing as a major 2nd unless you're just trying to be confusing to beginners lol


Wait, so there's no such thing as a major 2nd!? D:
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #29
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And lo, on the third day of the week Sleepy__Head didst read of the forum and his wrath was mighty as a squirrel defending its suckling pups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
and tbh i call it a minor 2nd out of habit (b or diminished would be more appropriate)


Dudes, I say unto thee: ****ing what?

C > Eb - Minor 3rd;
C > D# - Augmented 2nd;
C > D - Major 2nd;
C# > D - Minor 2nd;
C > Db - Minor 2nd;
C > Dbb - Diminished 2nd;
Cx > D - Diminished 2nd

Minor 2nd = semitone;
Major 2nd = tone;
Enharmonic unison = diminished 2nd.

It's not that complicated. Music != Aerospace engineering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
but that doesn't mean there's such a thing as a major 2nd unless you're just trying to be confusing to beginners


Again I say unto thee: ****ing what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by D..W..
A major second is the second interval in a major scale.


It's the first, second, fourth, fifth and sixth interval in the major scale, and the first, third, fourth, sixth and seventh interval in the natural minor scale.

The major scale gets its name from the major third, rather than t'other way around. And major / minor intervals get their name from the Latin 'magnus' and 'minor' meaning 'large' and 'smaller'. Major intervals are larger than minor intervals. That's it.

Lo! Awaken not the might of the squizzer for it is quite large and will bite your thumb until it bloody-well hurts.
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oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat

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Old 01-23-2013, 08:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy__Head
C > Eb - Minor 3rd;
C > D# - Augmented 2nd;
C > D - Major 2nd;
C# > D - Minor 2nd;
C > Db - Minor 2nd;
C > Dbb - Diminished 2nd;
Cx > D - Diminished 2nd

Minor 2nd = semitone;
Major 2nd = tone;

I don't know who's joking and who's serious, but this is correct.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:32 AM   #31
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i've literally never, ever heard anybody say anything about major 2nds except that they do not exist.

including a lengthy debate on here back before the age of time iirc
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #32
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Well, I don't know anything about that, but they are definitely a thing. There's some debate on why they're called major and minor seconds, but that's because people think that intervals are derived from scales, which isn't really true. Major means big, minor means small.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:33 PM   #33
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yeah i understand that, still absolutely news to me. but it's probably because of shitty instruction more than anything

i did go through 7 years of textbook music schooling that fucked up my fundamentals, after all

still, literally never heard anybody say major 2nd in context other than people like "hey why is there a minor 2 and no major 2" and instructors saying "shut up and learn something important"
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:49 PM   #34
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oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:56 PM   #35
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What we need to establish is that descriptors such as major and minor can be applied to the quality of a chord. However, major and minor can also be used to describe the distance between two notes, or an interval.

Intervals are classified in 5 ways. perfect, major, minor, augmented, or diminished. Perfect only applies to unison, 4ths, 5ths, and octaves. The intervals of 4th and 5th can be altered. A lowered note would be diminished, a raised would be augment. This does not apply to the octave and unison as altering them would create a 2nd.

The intervals of 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th can be either major or minor.

C to Db - minor 2nd, half step
C to D - Major 2nd, whole step
C to Eb - minor 3rd, 4 half steps
C to E - Major 3rd, 5 half steps
C to Ab - minor 6th, 8 half steps
C to A - Major 6th, 9 half steps
C to Bb - minor 7th, 10 half steps
C to B - Major 7th, 11 half steps.

Of course, there are 12 half steps in an octave.

Intervals are used constructing triads and other chords.

For instance a 1,3,5 (C,E,G) triad would be known as a "major, minor" triad since it is built off of a major 3rd (C to E) and a minor 3rd (E to G). This is of course root position.

1st inversion (E,G,C) is often known as a (let's just say we're in C) I6/4 chord. This is because it is a 6th from E to G and a 6th from G to C....Clear as mud, right?

This is just the tip of the iceberg, really. It gets much more complicated, but, these are fundamentals of figured bass which really defined western harmony for much of the time from the Baroque (1600s) period until the end of the Romantic movement (1850s).
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:14 PM   #36
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #37
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Interval source #1
http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/31

This addresses more than I was speaking of. I was keeping it basic and note mentioning the diminished 7th intervals, etc.

Source #2 on minor seconds
http://playtheaxe.com/theory/lesson...nor_second.html

Source #3 Figured bass
http://www.ars-nova.com/Counterpoin...iguredbass.html

Source #4
Benward & Saker Music in Theory and Practice, Vol. II
Addresses Tertian Harmony, or harmony built off the stacking of 3rd. Hence, a major, minor triad.

Go here for a general definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertian

And here for a lesson on Tertian Harmony is reference to extended chords.
http://www.lcsproductions.net/Music.../pages/115.html
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:46 PM   #38
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Oh hear me, mighty readers of UG. Hearken unto me and I will draw your ignorance as poison is drawn from a wound.

An interval is a relationship between exactly two notes.

There are two sorts of intervals in Western 12TET* music. They are:

Intervals within an octave;
Compound intervals.

I'll deal with the former.

Intervals within the octave are:

Unison
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
Octave

If we take the C major scale as a reference point ...

C - C (i.e. C to itself) - Unison
C - D - 2nd
C - E - 3rd
C - F - 4th
C - G - 5th
C - A - 6th
C - B - 7th
C - C (i.e. C to the next highest C) - Octave

All intervals have a quality. An interval quality is one of:

Diminished
Minor
Major
Perfect
Augmented**

Ignoring the footnote (**) for the purposes of this discussion, the possible intervals are:

---------------
Diminished unison
Perfect unison
Augmented unison
---------------
Diminished 2nd
Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Augmented 2nd
---------------
Diminished 3rd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Augmented 3rd
---------------
Diminished 4th
Perfect 4th
Augmented 4th
---------------
Diminished 5th
Perfect 5th
Augmented 5th
---------------
Diminished 6th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Augmented 6th
---------------
Diminished 7th
Minor 7th
Major 7th
Augmented 7th
---------------
Diminished octave
Perfect octave
Augmented octave
---------------

Raising the highest note in an interval by a semitone, or lowering the lowest interval by a semitone causes the interval quality to change like this:
Diminished > Perfect
Perfect > Augmented

Diminished > Minor
Minor > Major
Major > Augmented

Lowering the highest note in an interval by a semitone, or raising the lowest interval by a semitone causes the interval quality to change like this:
Augmented > Perfect
Perfect > Diminished

Augmented > Major
Major > Minor
Minor > Diminished

Major and Minor intervals can never become perfect, nor can perfect intervals become major or minor. This does not harm them in any way because, being constructions of the human mind, they do not have feelings. Do not concern yourself with the reasons why minor intervals are called 'minor', nor major intervals 'major', nor perfect intervals are 'perfect'. For one thing some of this is explained above, and for another it's entirely beside the point right now.

Each interval in the list is enharmonic to at least one other interval from the same list. Behold!

Code:
Diminished unison Perfect unison Diminished 2nd Augmented unison Minor 2nd Major 2nd Diminished 3rd Augmented 2nd Minor 3rd Major 3rd Diminished 4th Augmented 3rd Perfect 4th Augmented 4th Diminished 5th Perfect 5th Diminished 6th Augmented 5th Minor 6th Major 6th Diminished 7th Augmented 6th Minor 7th Major 7th Diminished octave Diminished unison Augmented 7th Perfect octave Perfect unison Augmented octave Augmented unison


When intervals are enharmonic to each other they sound the same but are spelled differently.
For example: C - C# sounds the same as C - Db. The former is an augmented unison, the latter is a minor 2nd.

Confusingly, a chord is "any two notes sounding simultaneously", although in common musical parlance the word "chord" has come to refer to a specific type of chord, namely the triad.
Equally confusingly the interval qualities described above are also used to describe triads.

Here endeth the lesson. Actually there are two footnotes. See below.

Now begone! Trouble me not again this eve.


* Western 12TET = Western 12-tone, equal temperament.

"Western" because "The West" (i.e. Europe (which is to the West of India and China (but only if you blot out the fact that we're living on a globe))) was where this stuff began.

12-tone because we only use 12 distinct tones as the subdivision of the octave. Yes, there are more names than there are tones - this is because every tone (like every godfearing Spaniard) has at least 2 names.

A "temperament" is a system of tuning. Equal temperament divides the octave into 12 equal semitones.

Other temperaments are possible. Other divisions of the octave are possible. Non-Western music is possible. All things are possible except with the possible exception that Simon Cowell will always be an enormous berk.


** It's possible to doubly- triply- &c. diminish and augment intervals but let's not overcomplicate things right now.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:09 PM   #39
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why are niggas actin like a nigga dont know intervals

i've just never heard the 2nd described as a major 2nd before.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:26 PM   #40
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na, it sounds good when i wrote the whole song on guitar pro, and then listened to it. sounds creepy though.
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