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Old 01-19-2013, 07:49 AM   #1
siddiq4321
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International Mesa amp modals comparison-help for a custom preamp design

Hey there..
I am having my 18w boutique combo designed from be3amplifiers.com
Need some help on the preamp section
Its is going to be a three channel out of which one is a fender bassmen

Need a feed for the rest two
I am hunting for- True METALLICA tone and high gain transperency plus a versitile output
(I understand as its not going to be 100% true)

Options-
Rythm...
Mesa dual (i am more keen to this), triple, mark series

Solo...
Mesa solo head, Tonebone tube dist.pedal, marshall jvm,jcm, anyone of the above rythms too.

Yes i am new to this...and any one amp which can do both shall be good to save my expenses
Thanks in advance
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #2
loki_lulamen
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Mesa mark 2 is the most famous Metallica tone. Ride the lightning and master of puppets IIRC.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loki_lulamen
Mesa mark 2 is the most famous Metallica tone. Ride the lightning and master of puppets IIRC.

Okay...any solo amp opinion? Mesa solo head?
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:32 AM   #4
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You're putting a Mark sound for a Rythmn sound? Shouldn't it be in the lead?

Anyways, I like the sound of a driven Fireball... considered that for the lead channel?

Also, at 18 watts, you're not gonna get much headroom, so be aware that you might not be able to get that preamp gain sound.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:01 AM   #5
I K0nijn I
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What kind of Metallica tones are you looking for?
My dual rectifier nailed modern Metallica rythm, but if you're looking for older Metallica, you'll want something else.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #6
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When you say 18 watts, I assume EL84 output tubes are going to be used. If I'm correct in my assumption, that's not a wise choice for the tones you're after.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CECamps
When you say 18 watts, I assume EL84 output tubes are going to be used. If I'm correct in my assumption, that's not a wise choice for the tones you're after.


+1

18w amps are not going to deliver the response and tone you're after.

However, with Metallica, the amp you use varies wildly on what album you're talking about. Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning were Marshall JCM800's boosted, Master of Puppets was Mesa Mark IIC+, then after that I know they used Triple Rectifiers for a while, then Mesa Mark IV's, then James switched to Diezel and Kirk has his own signature amp now. Quite often, they actually used their main amp as just a preamp and then used a separate power amp, from what I understand, but the preamp is 90% of their tone anyway, after Ride the Lightning.

My advice is to reconsider using an 18w for what you want, though. Those tubes aren't going to sound the same as what Metallicca used or uses, and you're going to be getting a lot of Power Tube sag and overdrive, which isn't involved in Metallica tone oustide of Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning, but, again, those were EL34's in JCM800's and they were modded for extra gain and boosted with an overdrive pedal.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CECamps
When you say 18 watts, I assume EL84 output tubes are going to be used. If I'm correct in my assumption, that's not a wise choice for the tones you're after.

What he said.

And as everybody knows, I'm a huge 18W freak.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:24 AM   #9
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Okay peps, thanks for each reply.
Okay if i decided for the dual recto for rythm as my amp maker suggests since he has it ready, no more waiting time i mean. I am more keen towards a mesa triaxis or mesa solo recto head, should i go for them for the LEAD? If yes which among them, if no what else? I just any of the preamps they already use or used, a more general one.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:45 AM   #10
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If you buy a Triaxis you don't need a full guitar amp. Just get the guy to make you a power amp. Plug the Triaxis into it and you're away. That is the best way to go.
At least get something with proper big bottles in it. As much as I love 18W'ers, it's all wrong for this. You build 18W'ers for power amp distortion. You're trying to shove a metal front onto a blues amp.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddiq4321
Okay peps, thanks for each reply.
Okay if i decided for the dual recto for rythm as my amp maker suggests since he has it ready, no more waiting time i mean. I am more keen towards a mesa triaxis or mesa solo recto head, should i go for them for the LEAD? If yes which among them, if no what else? I just any of the preamps they already use or used, a more general one.


Two of the most knowledgeable people on the forum (CECamps and Cathbard) BOTH tell you that the amp isn't going to do what you want, then I back that up with my opinion and experience (which doesn't come close to theirs, but it's an opinion from a non-amp builder and non-Electrical Engineer, for whatever that's worth) and you choose to ignore all three and power on through with your stupid decision.

I only have one response:

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:41 AM   #12
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Hey i dont actually wont to ignore. But i have no life chance...any options other than this for my budget of 30k indian or 600 US bucks. You can suggest me for that bidget then. As far as i have heard within indian buyers...the guy is damm sound value for money maker so just expecting the best of my luck.
And as Cathbard sir gave the input, i have feed him that i want the thir channel to be triaxis in front of the power amp section (however it is 18w) . Still correct me if you feel.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
Two of the most knowledgeable people on the forum (CECamps and Cathbard) BOTH tell you that the amp isn't going to do what you want, then I back that up with my opinion and experience (which doesn't come close to theirs, but it's an opinion from a non-amp builder and non-Electrical Engineer, for whatever that's worth) and you choose to ignore all three and power on through with your stupid decision.

I only have one response:


What then for my budget of 600?
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CECamps
When you say 18 watts, I assume EL84 output tubes are going to be used. If I'm correct in my assumption, that's not a wise choice for the tones you're after.

Hey mate, the amp maker says he can add 6l6 for addition of 20 bucks, should i go for them? Also ffed me which brand among jj tesla/ruby/others for both of el84 and 6l6
Thanks:-)
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:44 AM   #15
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It's to just about the power tubes also, can your output transformer also handle the increase in output?

The OT contributes quite a bit to the cost of the power amp.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #16
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Yes, a 6L6 power amp (with appropriate transformers) is a better choice. Go with JJ 6L6GC
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:23 PM   #17
Blktiger0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Yes, a 6L6 power amp (with appropriate transformers) is a better choice. Go with JJ 6L6GC


+311

6L6 would be a much better choice, provided the transformers are changed with it. JJ is the best of the brands you mentioned.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:59 AM   #18
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Great thanks....
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