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Old 01-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #21
Cavalcade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyKaribean
"plenty of true metal bands" (that i suppose you want me to guess)

I see those blogs have been working out really well for you!
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by HeavyKaribean
Lol the last 2 comments were very useful geez thanks.

Between "plenty of true metal bands" (that i suppose you want me to guess) and "queensryche sucks" I can't really choose wich of you has is mouth filled with the greater amount of shit.

If you have nothing productive to say, just keep it to yourselves.


;-; y u do dis? y u so meen?

If you're wanting new Metal bands of any subgenre, I can give you some. Dodecahedron, Miasmal, Pharaoh, Atriarch, Dark Forest, Ascariasis(Fuck you Steve), Fallujah, and so on & so forth.

For bands that have made a legit new subgenre? I can't think of any, sorry.

Oh yeah, Slice The Cake are really good. c:
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #23
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I do enjoy a bit of Dodecahedron.

Though yet again the people I know who like Black Metal heard them and said "this is not black metal"

Do you understand my cynicism with metal heads yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by technicolour
there's plenty of new "true" metal bands...


I never claimed otherwise, but are they doing anything new?
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by HeavyKaribean
Lol the last 2 comments were very useful geez thanks.

Between "plenty of true metal bands" (that i suppose you want me to guess) and "queensryche sucks" I can't really choose wich of you has is mouth filled with the greater amount of shit.

If you have nothing productive to say, just keep it to yourselves.


uhh, my comment was directed at the conversation directly above my post...
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #25
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I've come to a point where I give only nano****s to people about Metal classification. I've been listening to shit tons of Math Rock, Post-Hardcore, and widdly J-Rock lately, so I don't care much right now about what's Metal and what's not.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
I do enjoy a bit of Dodecahedron.

Though yet again the people I know who like Black Metal heard them and said "this is not black metal"

Do you understand my cynicism with metal heads yet?


well, maybe they aren't? (I've never listened so I don't know), but I don't consider WITTR black metal anymore, and I still enjoy two hunters, it's not really that big of a deal.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:53 PM   #27
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I've never thought of them as Black Metal, honestly. I can see how someone would make that call, but it doesn't sound like it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #28
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They sound more like Black Metal than any other kind of metal.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Wild variance is good because stagnation is a bad thing, it's tedious. Which is what metal seems to tend towards.
Stagnation is terrible, yes, but what you are describing is essentially like painting a wall green which progressively grows darker while still being "green"... and then, just putting in a splash of purple for no real reason, other than that it's just different, so that's okay.
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Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
And if I'm projecting, then so are you, where in the "great bible of metal" does it say that "And He looked upon his Blast Beats and motif driven death metal, and he saw it was good"? Treating music as an object just doesn't sit with me. It is not a THING it is a concept, a collection of sounds that only have rules because we as human beings, have given those sounds rules. There is nothing scientifically right about either of our views, I just find yours tends towards limiting what bits of squiggly air I'm allowed to call metal or not.
Well, my views are essentially based on applying logic to music, instead of listening to something and then interpreting my emotional response to that, which is what you and just about everyone else does.

Metal has been based around the interplay and resurgence of melodies since Black Sabbath, as opposed to transitions between fixed points. Slayer have it, Celtic Frost have it, even Motorhead. So, it's not me really deciding this arbitrarily, it's me listening to all these older bands which defined the style, and then listening to newer bands which help continue (not just reproduce) that style, and then realizing that all of these very new bands (by this, I mean metalcore, and "progressive metal" which is djent... which, itself, is really just a stylistic variation of metalcore), farrrr more often than not, just do not have much in common with Heavy Metal other than timbre and some tangential aspects of songwriting. It's something which is, like, plainly obvious to those who make an effort to understand Metal's collective history, as opposed to only metal released in the past, say, 10 years, instead of the past 43 (though, of course, I don't expect you to care about Metal history as much as I do, but this conflict of perspective is more or less the issue at the crux of this debate).
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Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
And let me just test your theory. If a band sounded like BMTH, yet had motif driven writing based around a narrative and inner dark emotion and death. Would you class it as metal, or would you take one listen to it and claim it was "not metal" and was crap?
This argument transposed:

If X = X, yet is actually Y, is X still Y? That doesn't make any sense, so clearly the answer here is no. BMTH is the band they are because they write vapid post-hardcore music which is aesthetically "hard" but moves, speaks and progresses as if it were rock/pop music. Their music doesn't "sound" like dark emotion, and death, which is what using motifs is all about-- selecting melodies that are indicative of a certain emotion so that you have context/direction, repeating those melodies with slight variations to provide variation, and assembling it all in a way that does not compromise the initial intent of those basic motifs, and so that each part is, in reality, flowing and unified, not flowing and unified in the mind of the listener themselves.

There is extremely dark Classical music which is absolutely representative of the sort of composition you have described, and certainly isn't Metal, and I like that, so... there is your answer, I guess.

More than that, it's not just about the song's structural traits, but also the artist's intent and how well that music fulfills that intent. So, if BMTH were well-written music, I would probably listen to them, think "this is well-written music" and leave it at that, because it's not as if I only listen to Metal. I like all different kinds of music, though I listen to some for entirely different reasons than that which I apply to Metal, Progressive Rock and Classical. It's all about acknowledging that there is such a thing as quality in music and then forming standards by which that quality can be measured (cohesion/focus/ambition/effectiveness, as examples).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Then show me some new and interesting metal... and explain WHY it is new and interesting as I'll readily admit my knowledge of Death Metal is not as thorough as you.
OK:



We have what appears to be merely well-executed Demilich (a superb band who I would absolutely recommend listening to) worship, creating death metal with the intent of presenting an otherworldly atmosphere and using fairly atypical, almost exotic note choice, and yet, in Chthe'ilist, you also have a pronounced influence from doom metal and Timeghoul in the presence of slow, extended, darkly consonant passages, something never touched upon by Demilich. And as far as aesthetic relation is concerned (though this means little), there's also keyboards and virtuosic guitar solos in Chthe'ilist, which is nowhere in Demilich.

In addition to this, there is more emphasis on creating a sense of flowing direction within the individual riffs/melodic phrases before the accompaniment (drums/vocals) of those riffs also change to create an entirely new section. It's clearly music written out of a reverence for the ancient, and yet speaks with its own distinct voice, and is, of course, covered in motifs (so the parts are unified, and work towards a goal-- instead of the lack of unity being parts being the goal). One of the absolute best modern death metal bands for sure, and the best death metal release of 2012 (the average metal tourist would probably say Cattle Decapitation or Aborted instead-- an absurd notion).

Hopefully that will help put everything into perspective better.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
Queensryche suck.


That's funny, you crack me up Morpho.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Nietsche
That's funny, you crack me up Morpho.
I must confess that I myself am fairly indifferent to this band. Could you provide an example of their most noteworthy material for me?
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #32
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The Queensr˙che EP is one of the first power metal records. So that.



Also The Warning and Rage for Order. Things kind of went a bit, um, downhill after that, admittedly. But Geoff Tate's voice is too good for me to permit anyone laying down a universal 'QR suck' statement
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by HeavyKaribean
Hey everybody.
I'm making this topic in order to get some opinions about the future of the Heavy Metal. It has been a long time since I started listening to Heavy and Thrash Metal. Starting on Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Slayer (basically the classics) when i was a kid and going trough all the other bands like Kreator, Onslaught, Testament and even other types of Metal like Power Metal, Progressive, Doom etc.. Well I always had something new to listen. Until I had listen to basically everything from the old times. And now I get to a point where I can't find something that sounds really new and awesome. The last thing I really enjoyed was Machine Head "Unto the Locust" and even they seem to have adopted that kind of sound especially in the chorus that are easy to the ear. I don't know maybe I'm not looking well enough and there are a lot of good bands out there that I don't know. Or maybe the world is really lacking a good new and fresh wave of Heavy Metal.
What you think???



I think metal is dying out - most people have socially advanced since then, and the metal culture is obsolete now (well at least in the UK anyway). Metal music died out in the 90's. I don't think metal was even in the top 10 charts since the 90's. But I'm sure there will be some indie metal bands around. Doom, Power metal, death - 99% of the population when they these terms just think "That music is for angry kids on an Xbox 11 out of 12 hours a day, and the other hour is spent injecting narcotics and having a shower once every millennium." And most people wouldn't want to be associated with that image - it's not cool. Don't reply back getting abusive with me, I'm just stating facts, not what I think. I'm stating what the POPULATION think about it. Not people on this forum, or even musicians in general. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't ever listen to metal, but if you personally love it, then that's great, for you. I don't think metal has ever been popular in the UK, it's mainly an american thing. The closest thing to metal in the UK is motorhead, but it isn't metal at all, more like hard rock. UK has the best music anyway like The Stone Roses, Oasis, The Beatles, Coldplay, Blur etc... I'd say Canada has the worst!

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Old 01-22-2013, 03:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietsche
The Queensr˙che EP is one of the first power metal records. So that.



Also The Warning and Rage for Order. Things kind of went a bit, um, downhill after that, admittedly. But Geoff Tate's voice is too good for me to permit anyone laying down a universal 'QR suck' statement
Huh, that song was actually quite good compared to everything else I've heard by them (mostly Operation Mindcrime), so cheers for that. And I have to say, vocals mean next to nothing to me but yeah, the dude is (was?) an excellent vocalist. He reminds me of Halford, though with a higher singing voice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
Metal music died out in the 90's.
No.
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Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
I don't think metal was even in the top 10 charts since the 90's
lol
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Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
But I'm sure there will be some indie metal bands around. Doom, Power metal, death - 99% of the population when they these terms just think "That music is for angry kids on an Xbox 11 out of 12 hours a day, and the other hour is spent injecting narcotics and having a shower once every millennium." And most people wouldn't want to be associated with that image - it's not cool.
Heavy metal is not for "most people".
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #35
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Supersonic demonstrating proper social etiquette for the outcasts of the Metal forum.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:57 PM   #36
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Supersonic demonstrating proper social etiquette for the outcasts of the Metal forum.


Stop crying your heart out, love. I have stated a fact. You fail to understand that all of the stars are fading a way - this isn't too bad so please try not to worry, I am sure that there is a chance that you could see them some day. So I would advise you to take what you need out of the music, then be on your way to your guitar and then I would suggest that you stop crying your heart out.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
I think metal is dying out - most people have socially advanced since then, and the metal culture is obsolete now (well at least in the UK anyway). Metal music died out in the 90's. I don't think metal was even in the top 10 charts since the 90's. But I'm sure there will be some indie metal bands around. Doom, Power metal, death - 99% of the population when they these terms just think "That music is for angry kids on an Xbox 11 out of 12 hours a day, and the other hour is spent injecting narcotics and having a shower once every millennium." And most people wouldn't want to be associated with that image - it's not cool. Don't reply back getting abusive with me, I'm just stating facts, not what I think. I'm stating what the POPULATION think about it. Not people on this forum, or even musicians in general. I mean don't get me wrong, I don't ever listen to metal, but if you personally love it, then that's great, for you. I don't think metal has ever been popular in the UK, it's mainly an american thing. The closest thing to metal in the UK is motorhead, but it isn't metal at all, more like hard rock. UK has the best music anyway like The Stone Roses, Oasis, The Beatles, Coldplay, Blur etc... I'd say Canada has the worst!


Does Metal have to be on the top 10 charts? Jazz isn't on the top 10 charts, neither is Classical, so are these forms of music obsolete and need not be listened to?

As for the Xbobx comment; I don't own an Xbox 'cause I hate the things, I do, however, own a Ps3 and play CoD and Battlefield on it from time to time. When I play those games, games which people base that stereotype on, it's usually Pop music they have playing and rarely ever play anything that has any semblance of Metal. You also pulled "99%" out of your ass, so don't call that a fact.

Pretty sure you guys have plenty of Metal, mostly because Europe churned out some of the best Metal in it's history.

Also, to state that your country has the "best" music scene is ridiculous.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #38
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Yeah, pretty clear they're just fishing around at this point.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:01 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
Stop crying your heart out, love. I have stated a fact. You fail to understand that all of the stars are fading a way - this isn't too bad so please try not to worry, I am sure that there is a chance that you could see them some day. So I would advise you to take what you need out of the music, then be on your way to your guitar and then I would suggest that you stop crying your heart out.

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Old 01-22-2013, 05:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Supersonic-95
I think metal is dying out - most people have socially advanced since then, and the metal culture is obsolete now (well at least in the UK anyway). Metal music died out in the 90's.


Some may argue that most true metal is dead because of the lack of ground breaking bands. But there are still plenty of bands producing decent albums, whether or not anything rivals the classics is up for debate. But there's bands that show promise, and make good metal if nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic-95
I don't think metal was even in the top 10 charts since the 90's.


irrelevant, metal has never been music for the masses

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic-95
But I'm sure there will be some indie metal bands around. Doom, Power metal, death - 99% of the population when they these terms just think "That music is for angry kids on an Xbox 11 out of 12 hours a day, and the other hour is spent injecting narcotics and having a shower once every millennium." And most people wouldn't want to be associated with that image - it's not cool. Don't reply back getting abusive with me, I'm just stating facts, not what I think. I'm stating what the POPULATION think about it. Not people on this forum, or even musicians in general.


There's idiot fans of every subgenre. If I get labelled like that, I can either:
a) prove to people I meet that I am not
b) not care what "the population" thinks of me or my music taste.

However, by in large, fans of extreme metal are usually more intelligent (relatively) and your facts usually only apply (if at all) to tourist metalheads, eg: pantera fans. And even then I'm sure there's some cool pantera fans...
Believe it or not, the population is often wrong about many things, so it doesn't matter f it's what you or they think, it's not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic
I mean don't get me wrong, I don't ever listen to metal,

They how can you have a conversation about it if you don't know what you're talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic
I don't think metal has ever been popular in the UK, it's mainly an american thing.

Here's a good example of you not knowing what you're talking about...

[qupte=supersonic] The closest thing to metal in the UK is motorhead, I'd say Canada has the worst![/QUOTE]

Here is a list of over 3000 metal bands from the UK:

http://www.metal-archives.com/lists/GB

And here is a list of over 2000 bands from Canada:

http://www.metal-archives.com/lists/CA

Canada has been very influential in the war metal scene and had/has produced some classic death metal albums.


TLR - you don't know enough about metal to be criticizing it.
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