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Old 01-26-2013, 12:00 PM   #21
My Last Words
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You know, the overlooked thing with rock smith is that it only tells you what to play, but not how you're supposed to play.

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I could criticize your song's playing very heavily... but I'm not going to. I just want you to stop posting about him.


this.
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Last edited by My Last Words : 01-26-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:13 PM   #22
jetwash69
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I think it's funny the way some people seem to feel threatened by Rocksmith. Sure, it would be foolish to use Rocksmith as the only learning tool. But it would also be foolish to expect most teachers to get students playing that at 3 months.

Maybe all the people I know who've had lessons just didn't have great teachers, but I know people who've had years of lessons who couldn't even play that. I've never had an actual lesson myself, though I've picked the brains of several instructors I've known. I found some with very limited knowledge of vibrato, others that didn't know about alternate picking, and some that had never even heard of pinch harmonics.

- Teachers alone aren't a panacea. Some are better than others, and I won't get into all the other limitations, but none of them will have the kind of contact time with the student you get with Rocksmith.
- Self-study alone isn't a panacea. It can take a lot long time to pick everything up, it's difficult to objectively critique your own technique, and it takes more self discipline and motivation than most people have.
- Rocksmith alone isn't a panacea. It only even tries to teach some of the fundamentals. It leaves out basics like vibrato, staccato, and dead notes, and provides misleading instruction on tremolo picking (to name a few). It has a video game-oriented interface, which is clunky and inefficient for learning. It communicates what to play through an imprecise construct; it IDs which string and fret to play and sometimes indicates how long to sustain the note, but doesn't display rhythmic values (e.g., quarter note, eighth, sixteenth). It doesn't give any clues as to when to pick down or up. It doesn't have any way to switch on/off or adjust effects on the fly, and it totally ignores tracks in the originals that use them (e.g., Whammy/POG on Icky Thump, and FuzzFactory/others on the Muse songs). It does, however do more than show you what to play; it tells you whether you played the right notes with the right timing (to a degree), even if it skips vibrato and how much to bend the strings or how fast to tremolo pick.

TS should definitely augment his son's training ASAP with either a formal teacher, or at least someone outside the family who can nip the bad habits in the bud and lay down the fundamentals that Rocksmith glosses over. It's rare for kids to have the time, the inclination, and/or the ability to be able to do this on their own effectively.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jetwash69
I think it's funny the way some people seem to feel threatened by Rocksmith. Sure, it would be foolish to use Rocksmith as the only learning tool. But it would also be foolish to expect most teachers to get students playing that at 3 months.




While that's a valid point, I'll also make the observation that it's the only thing he can play and if I played a chord progression on my guitar and asked him to play lead, he couldn't. In other words, he's learned to play something he saw on the screen - and play it well, but it's all he knows. Ask him to identify the note G on all 6 strings and he couldn't do it. Ask him to play a B pentatonic minor scale and he couldn't do it. Ask him to play an F# power chord and I doubt he could do it.

There's a difference between playing guitar and playing guitar.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:15 PM   #24
steven seagull
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play nice zahpod

but yes, this didn't really need it's own thread -in the interests of diplomacy i'll merge it with the existing one
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:29 PM   #25
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play nice zahpod




Yes sir.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by St John 999
Any suggestion for how to proceed.

Any suggestions on songs / music we could do together. We both have separate practice amps. I am keen that he learns how to play in a band. I'm happy to play backing chord that he can do lead over.

Thank you


I would recommend getting Tab Pro or Guitar Pro. The two of you can download your favorite tabs and practice together and/or separately. If there are multiple guitars on a given song the software will split them accordingly. It allows you to focus only on lead, rhythm, solo, etc. Plus it lets you loop a particular section and/or slow it down. Really great if you're trying to build speed, especially when learning new technique.

Also, listen to the original song and especially watch video whenever possible. Youtube is great. Watch how other guitarists play. Watch how they apply bends, vibrato, harmonics, etc. Watch how they apply alternate and economy picking. These are all important techniques we strive to learn.

And if it's possible, hire a teacher. If not, there are online lessons all over the internet. Justinguitar.com is free and will keep you both busy for months, if not years.

Oh, and one more thing. If either you or your son have any desire to play in a band someday start learning theory. It will go a long way in helping you communicate with other musicians, not to mention help with improvisation and creativity.

Last edited by 4ofus : 01-26-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 4ofus
Oh, and one more thing. If either you or your son have any desire to play in a band someday start learning theory. It will go a long way in helping you communicate with other musicians, not to mention help with improvisation and creativity.



Theory is important to learn, but it's been my experience that it doesn't always help you communicate with other musicians. For example, I play lead guitar in a group. I'm the only one who took lessons and knows theory. So, while it doesn't help me communicate the others, it does help me. So, if anything, learn theory for yourself - it can help to make you a better musician.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG6_Steven
While that's a valid point, I'll also make the observation that it's the only thing he can play and if I played a chord progression on my guitar and asked him to play lead, he couldn't. In other words, he's learned to play something he saw on the screen - and play it well, but it's all he knows. Ask him to identify the note G on all 6 strings and he couldn't do it. Ask him to play a B pentatonic minor scale and he couldn't do it. Ask him to play an F# power chord and I doubt he could do it.

There's a difference between playing guitar and playing guitar.


Well, then, we seem to have fairly similar opinions on this.

It kind of depends on what you want to get out of guitar, too. I've got a friend who's even older than me by a couple of years (we both started really late). He's been working with a teacher for years and can do all the music theory stuff you're talking about. But he lacks the confidence to play with others, much less get up in front of a crowd. I'm self taught, haven't paid more attention to theory than I've needed to (I can read tabs and write songs, but have to think about it to know what key a song is in), but I've been having fun on stage and jam sessions for about half the time I've been playing (about 6 years).

I do agree that especially for some learning in their youth, the more versatile they are, the better.

I mainly picked up Rocksmith because I'd hit a plateau speed-wise with GP6 and wanted to get better with solos. It's been helpful, but I have a long way to go before I'm satisfied with my playing.



Back OT with the OP, I have a few suggestions:

From in the game:
- Go With the Flow (I used to play this with my daughter out of UG Tabs and the official tab book a few years before Rocksmith came out) back when we were both starting on guitar
- Just about anything else where the Chords (or Combo) track represents a rhythm guitar and the Single Note (or Combo) track represents a lead guitar

From the DLC:
- The Avenged Sevenfold pack should be good once y'all get the chops for it
- The Offspring pack should be accessible right away
- Rock Hits 5 might have songs that would work for y'all, too.

Outside of Rocksmith:
- Most Metallica works well with 2 guitars
- QOTSA 3s and 7s
- Arctic Monkeys

Oh yeah, I also second the sentiment of getting GP6, but TS has heard that from me before...

Good luck and have fun. He's going to grow up faster than you realize.

Last edited by jetwash69 : 01-26-2013 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #29
St John 999
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Thank you for the advice. I agree that he will need some instruction to improve his technique cheers.
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