Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-28-2013, 11:46 AM   #1
donegan_zealot
UG's Clueless Guitarist
 
donegan_zealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Recreational Meth Vehicle
How to solo when there is no key?

Ok so I was jamming with a friend and he said he wasn't very good at soloing. He said he liked how I did and asked for some help with a song he was working on. He is in a metal band and all I heard was

--2----1------
0---1---4-2-3

on his 7 string
(not exactly accurate but you get the point)

and where he wanted to solo was just some "Djent" breakdown
00-000-00-0000-0-

I didn't know what to do. No chords to follow, no real lead melody, and no vocal melody to go off of? what do you do? Just up for grabs?
donegan_zealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 11:51 AM   #2
Tigas Jot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nederlands, Amsterdam
inb4 play locrian
Tigas Jot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
a0kalittlema0n
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
whatever that 0 is (b on the 7th string or e on the 6th) I'd do some crazy runs with a couple of perfectly timed sweeps based off of that one note. Really, if there are no chords at all, and you can't seem to find the tonal center from listening, then it shouldn't matter too much what you solo with.
__________________
Awesome Guitar Faces
a0kalittlema0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:50 PM   #4
Cheesepuff
i <3 you
 
Cheesepuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: in a lonely place
Whatever you hear in your head, whatever you think the solo should sound like, just play that.

Having just one chord to go off of (and a power chord at that) can give a lot of freedom if you know what you're doing.
__________________
Cheesepuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:01 PM   #5
Vicious_Turtle
UG Member
 
Vicious_Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: laconia NH
well im pretty sure the key would be whatever obsurdly tuned (wrong spelling) string he was playing is. you could pretty much do slayer soling. ya know, wherer you play random shit with terrible tone and act like a god after
Vicious_Turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #6
Myshadow46_2
Join the pack.
 
Myshadow46_2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
If he is just chugging away on that one note then that is the tonic and you've basically got the chromatic scale to choose notes from! You can decide to make it major, or minor, or diminished etc.
Myshadow46_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:19 PM   #7
donegan_zealot
UG's Clueless Guitarist
 
donegan_zealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Recreational Meth Vehicle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshadow46_2
If he is just chugging away on that one note then that is the tonic and you've basically got the chromatic scale to choose notes from! You can decide to make it major, or minor, or diminished etc.


yeah this is what i was wondering, thanks alot!
donegan_zealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 05:49 AM   #8
bondmorkret
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing. This riff looks pretty chromatic, you could try to follow the notes as if they were tonal centres but that could be really tough at high tempos. Alternatively, take a symmetrical scale like the diminished or wholetone, and take a more abstract approach. The continuity comes from the scales symmetry. Hopefully that makes sense
__________________
Online guitar lessons - Fusion, rock, metal and jazz!
bondmorkret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 06:08 AM   #9
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing.


fuck off
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 06:11 AM   #10
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
It's probably in B minor.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 12:28 AM   #11
food1010
Bassist
 
food1010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
It's in B minor.
Fixed.

1) Solo in B minor
2) Use accidentals, specifically a b2, b5, and others.
__________________
Only play what you hear. If you donít hear anything, donít play anything.
-Chick Corea
food1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:20 AM   #12
Angusman60
I think, therefore, I am.
 
Angusman60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing.

You do have a good point. Especially if there is only a "chug" on the tonic chord, modal improvisation is handy for creating different sounds, depend on the vibe you want.
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst
I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line.

"The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche


My Website
Angusman60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 05:43 AM   #13
bondmorkret
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angusman60
You do have a good point. Especially if there is only a "chug" on the tonic chord, modal improvisation is handy for creating different sounds, depend on the vibe you want.


Exactly! Chug rhythms on an open powerchord can be thought of as a static chord progression, so you'd improvise using a mode (probably dorian) and add tension by suggesting the V chord in strategic places.
__________________
Online guitar lessons - Fusion, rock, metal and jazz!
bondmorkret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #14
EmilGD
Unregistered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norway
Dude it's all about the phrygian supersubdominant mode. **** dorian.
EmilGD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #15
Angusman60
I think, therefore, I am.
 
Angusman60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
What scale is that from? Major, minor, diminished, or demolished?
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst
I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line.

"The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche


My Website
Angusman60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:06 PM   #16
EmilGD
Unregistered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norway
Demolished with a raised 8th iirc
EmilGD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:28 PM   #17
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bondmorkret
Exactly! Chug rhythms on an open powerchord can be thought of as a static chord progression, so you'd improvise using a mode (probably dorian) and add tension by suggesting the V chord in strategic places.


But by suggesting a V you'll make it a major or minor song. Major and minor tend to be dirty words with metalheads so I'd recommend you chug on the lowest note available and nothing else.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 01:50 AM   #18
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
 
AeolianWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
B minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing. This riff looks pretty chromatic, you could try to follow the notes as if they were tonal centres but that could be really tough at high tempos. Alternatively, take a symmetrical scale like the diminished or wholetone, and take a more abstract approach. The continuity comes from the scales symmetry. Hopefully that makes sense


extreme overcomplication, and the first sentence alone shows me that there's a lot you don't know about something you profess to teach. i can see you know your scales but there's far more to music than that -- simple things that you're not even alluding to here.
__________________
i'm on the vidya!

xbox gamertag: Aeolion
psid: Blackwindsamurai (holy **** i want a shorter one)
AeolianWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 02:42 PM   #19
Angusman60
I think, therefore, I am.
 
Angusman60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bondmorkret did answer the question, though. The TS wanted to know different way to approach soloing over a harmony part that does not designate a key. Modes are a good way to create the sound you want in that situation.
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst
I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line.

"The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche


My Website
Angusman60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 03:19 PM   #20
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by donegan_zealot
Ok so I was jamming with a friend and he said he wasn't very good at soloing. He said he liked how I did and asked for some help with a song he was working on. He is in a metal band and all I heard was

--2----1------
0---1---4-2-3

on his 7 string
(not exactly accurate but you get the point)

and where he wanted to solo was just some "Djent" breakdown
00-000-00-0000-0-

I didn't know what to do. No chords to follow, no real lead melody, and no vocal melody to go off of? what do you do? Just up for grabs?

1:44 - 2:44

Use what you like. It's an E tonality... open to interpretation.
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:52 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.