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Old 01-30-2013, 06:01 PM   #21
Hail
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i've drunk posted on here a million times but at least i fessed up to it later when half my posts were "i...asdf..frew...**** 20T"

speaking of stop copying him
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Akherousia
stuffs


AlanHB was replying to Jehannum, not the TS. Jehannum said how it's probably better that someone learn something incorrect and then re-learn the correct way later, so AlanHB said a better way would be to just learn it correctly first time. That doesn't mean a person should beat themselves up over not understanding something clearly when they first hear/learn it. It means that if you're learning something then don't learn about things that are completely false to begin with.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
AlanHB was replying to Jehannum, not the TS. Jehannum said how it's probably better that someone learn something incorrect and then re-learn the correct way later, so AlanHB said a better way would be to just learn it correctly first time. That doesn't mean a person should beat themselves up over not understanding something clearly when they first hear/learn it. It means that if you're learning something then don't learn about things that are completely false to begin with.


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Old 01-30-2013, 11:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sloop John D
For example, if you have a progression that is built with Aminor, CMajor, Eminor, these chords could fit easily into either A Aeolian or A Dorian. A progression of this type would sound like A Aeolian if you play A Aeolian over it, and it will sound like A Dorian if you play A Dorian over it.
Oddly, when I hear those three chords mentioned together, (C, Em, Am), all that comes to mind is "Stairway to Heaven"..... Well that, and to a lesser extent, "A Well Respected Man", By The Kinks.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 01-30-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sloop John D
Don't worry, you're not nearly as far behind as people here are suggesting.

The answer is that it depends on your progression. Some progressions can be ambiguous and must rely on the melody to establish the key. For example, if you have a progression that is built with Aminor, CMajor, Eminor, these chords could fit easily into either A Aeolian or A Dorian. A progression of this type would sound like A Aeolian if you play A Aeolian over it, and it will sound like A Dorian if you play A Dorian over it.

If you have a chord progression that is firmly set in A Aeolian, like Aminor, Dminor, Eminor, then playing A Dorian over the song will not make it sound like you are playing in Dorian. The F# from A Dorian will clash with the F from A Aeolian and it will sound dissonant or "wrong" to your ears.

You could potentially throw in a riff from A Dorian at points where there is no F note being played and it will probably sound pretty good, but those brief moments are not likely to cause the listener to hear a full modulation to the Dorian mode. Hendrix used to throw in a Dorian lick over an Aeolian song every so often toward his last year.


you're talking about modes as if they were keys. i don't think you're in a position to be discussing who is and who isn't "far behind". do you understand what a key is, and why it supersedes the modal system? if not, brush up on some music history.

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Originally Posted by Akherousia
Oh, please.
People learn best through trial and error - and to expect perfection right from the get-go is downright naive. If your mentality is seriously 'learn it right from the beginning or gtfo' then you aren't really in any position to be trying to assert your superiority over another person.

Making mistakes is natural if you wish to progress, and I find it hard to believe that you were so perfect right from the get-go either - regardless of how badly you may want to think so.


while it is true that perfection on first shot is not to be expected, nobody is discussing that -- you're using logic to justify going about learning something incorrectly.

making mistakes is natural, but no more natural than doing it right the first time. doing things right and doing things wrong both can come naturally.

progress doesn't always come from mistakes, either -- in fact, quite the opposite. progress comes from correcting mistakes. it is also very possible to progress without ever making a single mistake.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:19 AM   #26
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Learning modes wrong and then learning how useless they are doesn't really put you ahead at all. You could just not waste your time. Sure you won't have the same understanding of how useless they are, but you also would be better off in terms of tonal harmony because you would have focused that time on it rather than modes.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:46 AM   #27
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Eat your chord tones, kids. And your non-chord tones. Way better than modes.

edit: practice all your keys (and related minor variants), however, so as to play chord/passing tones in an interesting scalewise fashion over chord changes

Last edited by cdgraves : 01-31-2013 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:06 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cdgraves
Eat your chord tones, kids. And your non-chord tones. Way better than modes.

edit: practice all your keys (and related minor variants), however, so as to play chord/passing tones in an interesting scalewise fashion over chord changes


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Old 01-31-2013, 03:11 AM   #29
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So your chord progression could be G7 Cmin6 G#maj7#11. That one breaks all kinds of rules huh? I could explain to you why it works using chord substitutions but really I just picked them almost arbitrarily.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:15 AM   #30
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Ya it breaks all the rules of being a pretty vanilla minor key chord progression.

V-i-VI in Cm.

...mind is blown
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
Ya it breaks all the rules of being a pretty vanilla minor key chord progression.

V-i-VI in Cm.

...mind is blown
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:17 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
you're talking about modes as if they were keys.


I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:18 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by josephsam627
So your chord progression could be G7 Cmin6 G#maj7#11. That one breaks all kinds of rules huh? I could explain to you why it works using chord substitutions but really I just picked them almost arbitrarily.


give us something more challenging or go back to selling cars online
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:21 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Sloop John D
I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:22 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloop John D
I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.


Edit: I had two posts in a row that were just smilies. I feel obligated to use words, so here goes:

It's clear that you don't know what the difference is between tonal harmony and modal harmony. In order for chords to function modally, they generally have to remain pretty static (i.e. a pedal tone/chord or vamp). Tonal harmony has more freedom to expand and progress. The idea of a chord progression is strictly a tonal concept. Tension and release is a lot more important in tonal harmony, because that's how chords progress. Obviously, there's still tension and release in modal harmony, but tension mostly is used to reinforce the literal notes of the mode, rather than the resolution to the tonic or secondary resolutions to other chords.
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Last edited by food1010 : 01-31-2013 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hail
i've drunk posted on here a million times but at least i fessed up to it later when half my posts were "i...asdf..frew...**** 20T"

speaking of stop copying him

There was a thread in the Pit along the lines of "who in UG is on your shit list"

i was a little disappointed when I skimmed through and didn't see a post from you with my name in it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:34 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloop John D
I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

>Talking to AeolianWolf
>Tells him to brush up on his theory

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:39 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by food1010
It's clear that you don't know what the difference is between tonal harmony and modal harmony.


I would love for you to explain what gave you this impression.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloop John D
I would love for you to explain what gave you this impression.
Here's the culprit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloop John D
a chord progression that is firmly set in A Aeolian, like Aminor, Dminor, Eminor
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloop John D
I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.


oh shit i didn't even see this

it's okay, he's new, and has no idea who i am, so i'll let it slide -- the previous posts dealt with the issue quite well

i was especially fond of the two gifs
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