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		UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
Modes over Progressions

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01-30-2013, 06:01 PM

#21

Hail

obama 2016

Join Date: Jan 2010

Location: Dallas

i've drunk posted on here a million times but at least i fessed up to it later when half my posts were "i...asdf..frew...**** 20T"

speaking of stop copying him

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanHB

As for modes, keep away from them in this forum and elsewhere, but mostly on this forum.

01-30-2013, 07:42 PM

#22

Morphogenesis26

Dracucat The Immortal

Join Date: Apr 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akherousia

stuffs

AlanHB was replying to Jehannum, not the TS. Jehannum said how it's probably better that someone learn something incorrect and then re-learn the correct way later, so AlanHB said a better way would be to just learn it correctly first time. That doesn't mean a person should beat themselves up over not understanding something clearly when they first hear/learn it. It means that if you're learning something then don't learn about things that are completely false to begin with.

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01-30-2013, 08:35 PM

#23

AlanHB

Godin's Resident Groupie

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Canberra, Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26

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01-30-2013, 11:11 PM

#24

Captaincranky

Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

For example, if you have a progression that is built with Aminor, CMajor, Eminor, these chords could fit easily into either A Aeolian or A Dorian. A progression of this type would sound like A Aeolian if you play A Aeolian over it, and it will sound like A Dorian if you play A Dorian over it.

Oddly, when I hear those three chords mentioned together, (C, Em, Am), all that comes to mind is "Stairway to Heaven".....

Well that, and to a lesser extent, "A Well Respected Man", By The Kinks.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 01-30-2013 at 11:21 PM.

01-31-2013, 01:45 AM

#25

AeolianWolf

Tonal Vigilante

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: New York City

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

Don't worry, you're not nearly as far behind as people here are suggesting.

The answer is that it depends on your progression. Some progressions can be ambiguous and must rely on the melody to establish the key. For example, if you have a progression that is built with Aminor, CMajor, Eminor, these chords could fit easily into either A Aeolian or A Dorian. A progression of this type would sound like A Aeolian if you play A Aeolian over it, and it will sound like A Dorian if you play A Dorian over it.

If you have a chord progression that is firmly set in A Aeolian, like Aminor, Dminor, Eminor, then playing A Dorian over the song will not make it sound like you are playing in Dorian. The F# from A Dorian will clash with the F from A Aeolian and it will sound dissonant or "wrong" to your ears.

You could potentially throw in a riff from A Dorian at points where there is no F note being played and it will probably sound pretty good, but those brief moments are not likely to cause the listener to hear a full modulation to the Dorian mode. Hendrix used to throw in a Dorian lick over an Aeolian song every so often toward his last year.

you're talking about modes as if they were keys. i don't think you're in a position to be discussing who is and who isn't "far behind". do you understand what a key is, and why it supersedes the modal system? if not, brush up on some music history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akherousia

Oh, please.
People learn best through trial and error - and to expect perfection right from the get-go is downright naive. If your mentality is seriously 'learn it right from the beginning or gtfo' then you aren't really in any position to be trying to assert your superiority over another person.

Making mistakes is natural if you wish to progress, and I find it hard to believe that you were so perfect right from the get-go either - regardless of how badly you may want to think so.

while it is true that perfection on first shot is not to be expected, nobody is discussing that -- you're using logic to justify going about learning something incorrectly.

making mistakes is natural, but no more natural than doing it right the first time. doing things right and doing things wrong both can come naturally.

progress doesn't always come from mistakes, either -- in fact, quite the opposite. progress comes from correcting mistakes. it is also very possible to progress without ever making a single mistake.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister A.J.

Dude, AeolianWolf knows what he's talking about.

01-31-2013, 02:19 AM	#26
food1010 Bassist Join Date: Jun 2007	Learning modes wrong and then learning how useless they are doesn't really put you ahead at all. You could just not waste your time. Sure you won't have the same understanding of how useless they are, but you also would be better off in terms of tonal harmony because you would have focused that time on it rather than modes. __________________ Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything. -Chick Corea

01-31-2013, 02:46 AM	#27
cdgraves Registered User Join Date: Jan 2013	Eat your chord tones, kids. And your non-chord tones. Way better than modes. edit: practice all your keys (and related minor variants), however, so as to play chord/passing tones in an interesting scalewise fashion over chord changes Last edited by cdgraves : 01-31-2013 at 02:48 AM.

01-31-2013, 03:06 AM

#28

AeolianWolf

Tonal Vigilante

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: New York City

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdgraves

Eat your chord tones, kids. And your non-chord tones. Way better than modes.

edit: practice all your keys (and related minor variants), however, so as to play chord/passing tones in an interesting scalewise fashion over chord changes

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister A.J.

Dude, AeolianWolf knows what he's talking about.

01-31-2013, 03:11 AM	#29
josephsam627 Banned Join Date: Jan 2013	So your chord progression could be G7 Cmin6 G#maj7#11. That one breaks all kinds of rules huh? I could explain to you why it works using chord substitutions but really I just picked them almost arbitrarily.

01-31-2013, 03:15 AM	#30
chronowarp Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012	Ya it breaks all the rules of being a pretty vanilla minor key chord progression. V-i-VI in Cm. ...mind is blown __________________ Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods

01-31-2013, 03:16 AM

#31

food1010

Bassist

Join Date: Jun 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronowarp

Ya it breaks all the rules of being a pretty vanilla minor key chord progression.

V-i-VI in Cm.

...mind is blown

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Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea

01-31-2013, 03:17 AM

#32

Sloop John D

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeolianWolf

you're talking about modes as if they were keys.

I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

01-31-2013, 03:18 AM

#33

AeolianWolf

Tonal Vigilante

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: New York City

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephsam627

So your chord progression could be G7 Cmin6 G#maj7#11. That one breaks all kinds of rules huh? I could explain to you why it works using chord substitutions but really I just picked them almost arbitrarily.

give us something more challenging or go back to selling cars online

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister A.J.

Dude, AeolianWolf knows what he's talking about.

01-31-2013, 03:21 AM

#34

chronowarp

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

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01-31-2013, 03:22 AM

#35

food1010

Bassist

Join Date: Jun 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

Edit: I had two posts in a row that were just smilies. I feel obligated to use words, so here goes:

It's clear that you don't know what the difference is between tonal harmony and modal harmony. In order for chords to function modally, they generally have to remain pretty static (i.e. a pedal tone/chord or vamp). Tonal harmony has more freedom to expand and progress. The idea of a chord progression is strictly a tonal concept. Tension and release is a lot more important in tonal harmony, because that's how chords progress. Obviously, there's still tension and release in modal harmony, but tension mostly is used to reinforce the literal notes of the mode, rather than the resolution to the tonic or secondary resolutions to other chords.

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Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea

Last edited by food1010 : 01-31-2013 at 03:29 AM.

01-31-2013, 03:28 AM

#36

20Tigers

Join Date: Jun 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hail

i've drunk posted on here a million times but at least i fessed up to it later when half my posts were "i...asdf..frew...**** 20T"

speaking of stop copying him

There was a thread in the Pit along the lines of "who in UG is on your shit list"

i was a little disappointed when I skimmed through and didn't see a post from you with my name in it.

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Explaining Modes part 1
Explaining Modes part 2 (continued)

01-31-2013, 03:34 AM

#37

rockingamer2

Larmarky Remark

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Rainy Northwest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

>Talking to AeolianWolf
>Tells him to brush up on his theory

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01-31-2013, 03:39 AM

#38

Sloop John D

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by food1010

It's clear that you don't know what the difference is between tonal harmony and modal harmony.

I would love for you to explain what gave you this impression.

01-31-2013, 03:42 AM

#39

food1010

Bassist

Join Date: Jun 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

I would love for you to explain what gave you this impression.

Here's the culprit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

a chord progression that is firmly set in A Aeolian, like Aminor, Dminor, Eminor

__________________
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea

01-31-2013, 03:44 AM

#40

AeolianWolf

Tonal Vigilante

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: New York City

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloop John D

I'm talking about modes as if they were modes. You seem to be confused about what a mode actually is. Maybe you should brush up on your theory.

oh shit i didn't even see this

it's okay, he's new, and has no idea who i am, so i'll let it slide -- the previous posts dealt with the issue quite well

i was especially fond of the two gifs

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister A.J.

Dude, AeolianWolf knows what he's talking about.

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