jaybals

Hi people,

I've been on a long slow quest to improve my Hutchins Regal hollowbody. So far i have installed a nice Bigsby B7, got a new bone nut filed for me, and had some fancy new wiring done inside (to the extent of having a control cavity cut into the back of it!)

So far, it sounds great, so much better than it used to. Clearer, less muddy, especially thanks to the subtle, yet effective bass roll-off.

However, i'm still having issues with tuning stability, even wit the new Luthier-made bone nut, and a Bigsby vibrato (to replace the old broken tailpiece it had). It's particularly the G-strings that slips out (ooh, matron!), but when it slips out, it's by half a semi tone, and happens almost anytime i bend on it. It's really being a pain in the arse. I like to use my Bigsby a lot too, which can cause the tuning to mess up a lot too (again, the G more-so than the rest).

This was always the case even before the new nut was put on, so i'm thinking it's the Tuners. What would you guys recommend?

The headstock is 3x3, with 10mm bore holes.
Are locking tuners worth it? or make no difference toward tuning stability?
Budget is £50 max, preferably less.
I prefer the look of vintage style buttons, either keystone or trapezoid.

Cheers all

[edit: i realize i have already made threads on this a couple months back, but got help, so i thought it'd be better to make a more concise, updated thread than to necro-bum]

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Fender Jazzmaster | Hutchins Regal

Cornell Romany Plus | Blackstar HT5

stonyman65

Getting a nut cut and installed by someone who really knows what they are doing is really important thing. Not only will it help with playability, but it has a huge affect on tuning stability and intonation. You can't beat it.

Locking tuners are also a great thing to have. It will have a have great affect on tuning stability and will make restringing just about as simple as it gets (I can restring my strat and tune up in about a minute). The tuning stability of locking tuners with a fixed bridge will be rock solid.

For locking tuners, I would suggest either Grover or Sperzel. Those two companies make probably the best locking tuners on the market. Schaller makes some too, but I'm not really familiar with those, however I wouldn't doubt for a second that they are great.

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jetwash69

Are you stretching the strings enough? You should stretch each one until it doesn't lose any pitch at all. This tool will make it a lot easier: http://www.stringstretcha.com/index/index.php

Are you using a good graphite lube in the nut and saddles? I recommend this one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...uitar-lubricant but nut sauce and others are good too. Just don't expect pencil lead to make a difference.

You can get the locking tuners, but you don't really need them. If you tie off the tops when you string them, then that locks them just as well as locking tuners and you don't need windings. It's the windings that hurt tuning stability.

If all else fails, then get a Floyd Rose.


...Just kidding.

jetwash69

I replaced the tuners on my Squier with the Fender/Schaller locking tuners. They're nice, and do save about a minute or two per string compared to the manual locking method I mentioned above, that I use on my other 5 guitars (including the ones with Floyd Rose trems/locking nuts). But I'm not getting lockers for any of my other guitars until I break more tuners and need to replace them.

jaybals

Well the Luthier i got to do it seemed to know what he was doing, and recommended i get a nut-replacement first, rather than tuner replacements when i asked him, yet the problem persists (though maybe not as bad)

I have read some people say locking tuners aren't all that great for stability, as they only lock the string in place, not lock the tuner itself, and also that they can indent the strings where they pinch down, do you have any opinions in this? Would i get more for my money with a non-locking tuner of the same price range as a cheaper locking tuner?

I do however love the look of the Schaller top-lock tuner. it says it needs a bore hole of 9.8, is that close enough to 10 to be alright?

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Fender Jazzmaster | Hutchins Regal

Cornell Romany Plus | Blackstar HT5

jaybals

haha, a hollowbody with a floyd rose... that's bound to piss someone off! Maybe one day...

Thanks for the suggestion of nut sauce/similar, does it make that much difference? I have until now used pencil lead, but i guess like you said it doesn't make much difference!

As for stretching, i do always stretch a good amount, and never have tuning issues with my other guitars. Partiularlyly Jazzmaster, on which i absolutely rape the whammy bar without losing tuning.

It just seems wierd to me that i've changed all sorts of variables with the same results: bad tuning stability, particularly on one strings, which is why i've guessed it to be the tuners

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Fender Jazzmaster | Hutchins Regal

Cornell Romany Plus | Blackstar HT5

jetwash69

Yeah, even if it were just a semi-hollow body it would be hard to have enough wood left in it to be stable after cutting a hole for the trem block/springs. Also, I doubt you could get the right neck angle for a Floyd.

All pencil lead does for you is make the nut dirty. Many will disagree with me, but you'll also find people here who think the secret to tuning a Floyd Rose is to tune the strings in a particular order instead of making spring tension = string tension. Graphite lube makes a big difference as long as the nut isn't cut too small for your strings.

Could be a broken tuner, too. Tuning stability was shit on my Squier when it had two cracked tuning machine housings. With the floating trem, it affected tuning on all strings, though. Do any of the posts have more play than the others? Next string change, you can remove the tuners and check for cracks in the housing and/or excessive play in the posts.

As for the string stretching, if you don't stretch them completely, then there will be issues, and they'll be magnified on a guitar with a trem.

Locking tuners don't have the issues you're talking about if you use them correctly. They don't need windings. As long as you lock it down in the right place initially, then the indentation it puts in the string won't be an issue. Don't plan on re-using a string once it's been locked down. A normal-quality locking tuner in good condition won't slip (turn) on its own. The only ways it will lose tuning is if something bumps the key, if the temperature changes significantly, or if you didn't stretch the string completely (and do it from bridge to post).

One advantage of locking tuners over a locking nut is that if something does bump the key, there's little chance of breaking the string between the nut and the post, like can happen with a Floyd.

jaybals

Thanks for the advice! Might grab myself some lube. I did apply some of my dunlop string conditioned/lube last night, right along the strings and over the nut, and it seemed to actually help lubricate it somewhat (admitedly, it sort of leaked over the neck and nut by way of a happy accident), although i haven't played it extensively since, i'll check it out some more tonight.

I haven't notice any tuners seeming to be cracked or damaged, and the string posts only seem to have as much give as one another, but i'll wait and see next time i re-string (may be a while, decided to give elixirs a go...)

I'll probably keep this thread updated with my finding/purchases. I'll order lube tonight (i feel like i'm preparing some underground sex party...)

If i was going to go for new tuners anyway, would it be worth getting lower-cost locking tuners, or the equivalent-priced non-locking as far as stability is concerned?

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Fender Jazzmaster | Hutchins Regal

Cornell Romany Plus | Blackstar HT5