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Old 02-02-2013, 10:10 AM   #261
CoreysMonster
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Originally Posted by Cianyx
@Coreymonster: A lot of the pictures posted in the blog were covers or promo pics iirc in which its main purpose is to attract.

So then why is the argument always about "women's portrayal in comic books", when it should really be "women's portrayal in advertising", which is a completely different argument.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:18 AM   #262
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That's a good question and I don't really know why. I suspect that targeting advertising is too broad and ambiguous for any meaningful discussion to be made.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #263
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I still have yet to read someone stating a good reason why hyper-sexualizing women is a bad thing in comic books. I'm still confused to how exactly it is immoral. I highly doubt that comic book readers or artists think that the only thing women are good for is being sex objects. There are very few people who actually believe that, and i don't think it has to do with any medium of media. I think it has to do with something much deeper than that.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:50 PM   #264
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I don't see why comics would inherently be a lower art form. The reason for it being widely considered as such is in my opinion because it's been stereotyped as something for kids and young teens.
If you would read something more mature and ambitious like for example Love & Rockets im sure you would see how much potential the comic book medium has.

That actually has nothing to do with why I think comics are inferior. I just see less room for artistic merit in that medium, compared to film/paintings/drawings/music/literature.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by palm mute
That actually has nothing to do with why I think comics are inferior. I just see less room for artistic merit in that medium, compared to film/paintings/drawings/music/literature.

music is pretty low on the artistic totem pole as well.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by palm mute
That actually has nothing to do with why I think comics are inferior. I just see less room for artistic merit in that medium, compared to film/paintings/drawings/music/literature.

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Old 02-02-2013, 02:44 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster

I was waiting for you to post that
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:56 PM   #268
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I was waiting for you to post that

I'm not predictable!

...Well it was an obvious choice. >_>

Calvin-5?

EDIT: as part of this discussion, Watterson once said "I think a strip about a little girl, drawn by a woman, would be great." Why did that never become a thing?

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Old 02-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
I'd like to know something.

How many of you who are arguing about the sexist portrayal of women in comic books actually READ comic books? Do you actually have an understanding of the medium you're talking about, or are you taking a bunch of shitty single drawings by the likes of Rob Liefeld to base your arguments on? Do you even know any of the characters you're posting? Or are you crying sexism just because a comic book artist decided to draw his women with bulbous boobs and asses, just like he decided to draw his heroes with bulging muscles, and claiming that they thus have no function other than to be sexy?

Let's take Silk Spectre from the Watchmen, for instance.



Short skirt, see through-ish top, high heels. Not exactly fighting clothing, but then, Rohrschach runs around fighting in plateau shoes and a raincoat. The only characters to have armor in the Watchmen are Night Owl and Ozymandias. John runs around naked 99% of the time.


As one of the people who this post is kind of directed towards, I must say Corey you are completely full of shit if you think this wasn't at least a somewhat rare exception.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:05 PM   #270
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As one of the people who this post is kind of directed towards, I must say Corey you are completely full of shit if you think this wasn't at least a somewhat rare exception.

A rare exception of what, a character having a personality and purpose that goes beyond how they are drawn?

Are you shitting me?

Do you even read arguments people write, or do you just skim, read "Oh they don't agree with me" and start flaming?

EDIT: Of course Watchmen is a rare exception of quality amongst super hero comic books, but that wasn't my point. My point was that you can't tell a character's contribution to the story based on a single image or the way they are drawn.

Last edited by CoreysMonster : 02-02-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:08 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
A rare exception of what, a character having a personality and purpose that goes beyond how they are drawn?

Are you shitting me?


No, a character having a personality and purpose ALONG WITH a more sensible way of being drawn. Even scenes where Silk was actually having sex had less unnecessary sexualisation put into the drawings than a lot of shit DC and Marvel have put out over the years.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:10 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Mack56
No, a character having a personality and purpose ALONG WITH a more sensible way of being drawn. Even scenes where Silk was actually having sex had less unnecessary sexualisation put into the drawings than a lot of shit DC and Marvel have put out over the years.

I was talking about people saying that the women in comic books have no purpose beyond being t&a. Yes, they are drawn in an oversexualised way, but that doesn't automatically mean their character is reduced down to that.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:17 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
I was talking about people saying that the women in comic books have no purpose beyond being t&a. Yes, they are drawn in an oversexualised way, but that doesn't automatically mean their character is reduced down to that.


Sure, it doesn't automatically mean that. But a lot of times they either are being reduced to eye candy or their facility as eye candy seems to dominate the comic. Lest we forget what they did to Starfire.

But you know, that isn't just an issue of art style. It's truly an issue of art style + lazy writing + lazy marketing. But you know, my point still stands about silk spectre. She is one of the expections to this partly because there was none of that laziness involved in The Watchmen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
EDIT: Of course Watchmen is a rare exception of quality amongst super hero comic books, but that wasn't my point. My point was that you can't tell a character's contribution to the story based on a single image or the way they are drawn.


That may be true of a single panel, but when a character is (always) drawn a certain over the course of an issue or multiple issues to the point where being drawn that way seems more important than how the character is supposed to act in a given situation, people start to wonder.
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Last edited by Mack56 : 02-02-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #274
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Sure, it doesn't automatically mean that. But a lot of times they either are being reduced to eye candy or their facility as eye candy seems to dominate the comic. Lest we forget what they did to Starfire.

I had already forgotten about that. *shudders*

That was especially painful, considering the Starfire many, many people think of first is the Teen Titans one.



vs



Point taken.

Quote:
But you know, that isn't just an issue of art style. It's truly an issue of art style + lazy writing + lazy marketing. But you know, my point still stands about silk spectre. She is one of the expections to this partly because there was none of that laziness involved in The Watchmen.

I definitely agree with all of this.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:27 PM   #275
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The starfire thing wouldn't even have been that bad if the entire plot for those 2 or 3 issues wasn't. "Starfire has amnesia and doesn't remember that she wouldn't just fuck EVERYBODY. Let's go ahead and have her do that."
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:42 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
*new Starfire*

10/10, would buy love pillow
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:47 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
Teen Titans
Great show.

Edit: That new Starfire looks almost just like Madison Ivy.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:05 AM   #278
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jesus christ what a bunch of ****in' nerds
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:43 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cianyx
@Coreymonster: A lot of the pictures posted in the blog were covers or promo pics iirc in which its main purpose is to attract. Pointing out SS and Thorn, which aren't sexualised to the same extent anyway, doesn't exactly negate this. On the other hand, I really don't have much qualms with this sorta stuff. Personally, I already find superheroes kinda ridiculous so characteristics such as being hypersexualised and extremely muscular is sorta already implicit to the style

i also think that female superheroes does more against sexism than its given credit for but the idea is still kinda weak and would probably sound silly

Not really that silly. Most female characters are strong willed and independent who choose to dress however they want. Which is a feminist idea. If the whiners in this thread bothered to read anything before popping off at the keyboard, they might know more about the characters other than what they wear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack56
As one of the people who this post is kind of directed towards, I must say Corey you are completely full of shit if you think this wasn't at least a somewhat rare exception.

It's really not. And there are a lot of writers who address it. Take The Boys for instance. The writer decided to quip about a female character joining a team who expects her to wear a much skimpier outfit and then they make her perform sexual favors. They all get their comeuppance. It's really not all that rare. The rest of the female characters don't do anything like this.

How about the girls in Sin City? The prostitutes. They dress offensively, so we could disregard that they self supporting women who use their bodies on their own terms. They take advantage of men. They're essentially amazons. And the male characters aren't presented as morally sound people, are they?

How about Rogue? How about Hit Girl? How about Catwoman? Tulip O'Hare? Death? Dizzy Cordova? Liz Sherman? I can do this all day.
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Originally Posted by palm mute
That actually has nothing to do with why I think comics are inferior. I just see less room for artistic merit in that medium, compared to film/paintings/drawings/music/literature.

I don't understand this. Comic books are paintings, drawings and literature. How can they be inferior rather than different? Sometimes you have silly comic books about nothing, but that's true of the other mediums as well. And sometimes you have stuff that has grand meaning.

Take The Incal, for example. Jodorowsky filled it with ideas he had in his movies. Except he wasnt limited in the visuals because things only needed to be drawn and done by two people. If anything, it allows for more artistic freedom. So because he wasn't bound by limitations, the artistic credibility was superior to what he can do with film as the medium.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #280
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No cos women are meant to be sexy and if they weren't they wouldn't care so much about being sexy
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