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Old 02-01-2013, 01:53 PM   #1
)v(egaFan90
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string skipping against picking direction

Hey guys! I apologize if this has been posted again and again but with various descriptions of this technique it was hard to find anything using the search bar . So anyway, I was looking for any advice on general alternate picking that involves changing strings, either adjacent or skipping, against the direction of picking. For example,

Code:
A -------------0-1-2-3-------------- E ---0-1-2-3------------------------


When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:47 PM   #2
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the answer is more practice, haha sorry it's the truth. but for changing strings this kind of excersise will come in handy for changing strings.

a--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
e-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-.

you could also check out inside picking and outside picking on google.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamza hashmi
the answer is more practice, haha sorry it's the truth. but for changing strings this kind of excersise will come in handy for changing strings.

a--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
e-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-.

you could also check out inside picking and outside picking on google.


Ok I'll check out that inside and outside picking. I can do that exercise though because I just down pick then up pick. That's no problem for me.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:34 PM   #4
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That's not string skipping.

But to answer your question, just find various other situations where you have to use that motion and keep practicing it until it becomes more natural. And also take things that you don't use that combination and try to change them so you are forced to work on your weaknesses. For example, instead of playing this:
Code:
e|------------- B|------------- G|------------- D|------------- A|-------5-7-8- E|-5-7-8-

Starting with a down stroke, start with an up stroke instead.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior#1
That's not string skipping.

But to answer your question, just find various other situations where you have to use that motion and keep practicing it until it becomes more natural. And also take things that you don't use that combination and try to change them so you are forced to work on your weaknesses. For example, instead of playing this:
Code:
e|------------- B|------------- G|------------- D|------------- A|-------5-7-8- E|-5-7-8-

Starting with a down stroke, start with an up stroke instead.


Ok. Thanks guys.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:05 PM   #6
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I remember trying to learn On the Shores of Ithaka by Quo Vadis and there's a particular portion where you play across 5 strings. It took me a good 2-3 weeks to get that part down. Playing it at normal speed was impossibly hard.

Would you like to try it out if I can get my hands on the tab again?

CHECK THIS OUT (from my sig)

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...g_skipping.html
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Last edited by technical death : 02-01-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!


Pull up Stryker, pull up Stryker. Your commin in too low.

Alternate is hard to learn.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:49 PM   #8
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warm up:

Code:
e|-------------------x---- B|---------------x-------- G|-----------x------------ D|-------x---------------- A|---x-------------------- E|-x---x---x---x---x---x--


then back down

And again starting on the A string
Code:
e|-------------------x---- B|---------------x-------- G|-----------x------------ D|-------x---------------- A|-x---x---x---x---x---x-- E|---x--------------------

then on D, and so forth

Do them with each X being a quarter note, two 8th notes, a triplet, and then 4 16th notes. When you do the quarters and triplets, each string change will be in the opposite direction.

If you haven't done any strict alternate picking exercises before, start no faster than 60 bpm and make sure you can alternate pick those big skips before moving on.

Last edited by cdgraves : 02-02-2013 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves

And again starting on the A string
Code:
e|-------------------x---- B|---------------x-------- G|-----------x------------ D|-------x---------------- A|-x---x---x---x---x---x-- E|---x--------------------

then on D, and so forth

Do them with each X being a quarter note, two 8th notes, a triplet, and then 4 16th notes. When you do the quarters and triplets, each string change will be in the opposite direction.

If you haven't done any strick alternate picking exercises before, start no faster than 60 bpm and make sure you can alternate pick those big skips before moving on.


ooh that's a good exercise! thanks
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:20 AM   #10
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Freepower has some amazing exercises for this kind of problem. Remember to start slow and play these with good economy of motion (small movements) and as little tension as possible.

In particular, this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOsvZdvVndo

Try playing this for about twenty minutes a day or something, five minutes at a time (unless you start to tense up in which case rest and shake your arms until you've relaxed again). Make sure to play it starting on a downstroke and on an upstroke so you can develop both your inside and outside picking (read the technique sticky to learn about all these terms).

I can honestly credit a lot of my picking technique development to playing Freepower's exercises (especially this one), they're such an efficient way to improve your technique meaning more time to actually play music instead of exercises.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by )v(egaFan90
Code:
A -------------0-1-2-3-------------- E ---0-1-2-3------------------------


When playing this sort of lick very fast, my pick will clip the low E string as I move to pick the A string. I don't have issues at slower speeds. I know the answer is just more practice, but it be nice to hear advice from someone who faced this same problem and found a successful way to overcome it. Danke!


Start with an upstroke on the string that has 4 notes, that way you'll be hitting on a downstroke as you change to the string below and as a result the transition will be a lot smoother. The rule of thumb (that I use at least) when I'm picking fast and I need to change to the string below is this,

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with a downstroke.
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with an upstroke.

The same for when you want to change to the string above

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with an upstroke
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with a downstroke.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #12
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You're going to have to enlighten me here, you say "crossing against the direction of picking" but in your example normally you will be moving from the E string to the A string with a downstroke, which in my mind is "in the direction of the picking".

What exactly are you doing in terms of pickstrokes in your example?

Quote:
I can honestly credit a lot of my picking technique development to playing Freepower's exercises (especially this one), they're such an efficient way to improve your technique meaning more time to actually play music instead of exercises.




The two most relevant ones for the OP are this one for finding weaknesses - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlX...8D6999&index=13

and this one for generally testing the limits of your string crossing abilities -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOsv...48D6999&index=3
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freepower
You're going to have to enlighten me here, you say "crossing against the direction of picking" but in your example normally you will be moving from the E string to the A string with a downstroke, which in my mind is "in the direction of the picking".

What exactly are you doing in terms of pickstrokes in your example?



In my example, I would be doing a downstroke, upstroke, downstroke, and upstroke on the low e string. The last upstroke is moving away from the next note which is on the a string so my next motion must then cross over the low e string to get to the a string. Does that make sense? To contrast, if i started with an upstroke my last strum on the low e string would be towards the a string so my pick would not need to cross over the e string again.


I'll check out your lessons Freepower!
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Last edited by )v(egaFan90 : 02-02-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #14
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This

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShot08
If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with a downstroke.
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with an upstroke.

The same for when you want to change to the string above

If the number of notes on the string is odd, start with an upstroke
If the number of notes on the string is even, start with a downstroke.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #15
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Cool, so what you're having trouble with, most people call "inside picking". John Petrucci wrote a nice exercise for that in Rock Discipline. If JP can struggle with it you can too.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:38 PM   #16
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It's "inside picking" if you're moving to a lower pitch string.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
It's "inside picking" if you're moving to a lower pitch string.


No, inside picking is specifically the movement that happens either when you're going from a downstroke on a higher string to an upstroke on a lower string or when you're going from an upstroke on a lower string to a downstroke on a higher string. These two motions:

Code:
e|------ ----- b|----- ----- g|---7- -7--- d|-5--- OR ---5- a|----- ----- e|----- ----- ---U-D- -D-U-



Also:

DarkShot08:

Too prescriptive dude, nowhere near flexible enough. I can think of several situations where that just won't work out without seriously messing with either strict alternate or normal economy picking.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:25 AM   #18
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i have this problem too, but its only when i have to down stroke again, i have been using a metronome for a long ass time and it seems to be helping slowly. really one of the only things thats holding me back for what im trying to do right now. i can downpick decent. gallop. and alternate in time fast enough on one strin. but if i have to go to another string. im allllll f***** up
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #19
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Ive read that alot of people think inside is harder than outside - even Steve Morse! The best alternate picker on this planet. I have the opposite problem because for most of my life Ive used a mixture of inside and economy - directional picking. So I have to work harder on outside. Its best if you always use equal amounts of both from when you start playin guitar. Like 3 note per string scales...
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:59 AM   #20
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^ whichever one you practice more you'll be better at. Paul Gilbert and Petrucci really prefer outside, Greg Howe really prefers inside.

I used to prefer inside, practiced a ton, found outside easier after practice... now I'm back to finding inside easier.
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