02-02-2013, 02:49 AM
|
#21 | ||
|
obama 2016
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
|
Quote:
i laughed a little too hard at this
__________________
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
02-02-2013, 02:57 AM
|
#22 |
|
I think, therefore, I am.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
^^ Ditto
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst  I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line. "The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche My Website |
|
|
|
|
02-02-2013, 05:10 AM
|
#23 | |
|
A cornucopia of trivia
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Butt****, SY
|
There are 12 different tones in 12TET, but every note in this system has at least one enharmonic note. There are not, and never have been, 17 different scale degrees in 12TET.
__________________
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-05-2013, 03:41 AM
|
#24 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
|
Angusman60, I thank you for your eye-opening analysis!
|
|
|
|
|
02-05-2013, 06:28 PM
|
#25 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
|
Quote:
I'm counting all the standard usage sharps and flats of each scale degree. #2 and b3 are functionally distinct. Last edited by cdgraves : 02-05-2013 at 06:31 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-06-2013, 04:40 AM
|
#26 | ||
|
obama 2016
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
|
Quote:
__________________
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
|
02-06-2013, 07:28 AM
|
#27 | ||
|
A cornucopia of trivia
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Butt****, SY
|
Quote:
And I'm counting the distinct tones. It - I say again - is called 12TET because the scale's divided into 12 equal parts. There are 12 tones and no more. Sure the context of each tone determines its function (and sometimes its name) but that doesn't mean there are more tones. "More functions and/or more names = more tones" is like saying "When I call you Bill you actually become two distinct people - cdgraves and Bill".
__________________
Quote:
Last edited by Sleepy__Head : 02-06-2013 at 07:32 AM. |
||
|
|
|
|
02-06-2013, 07:42 AM
|
#28 | |
|
UG's Mr Chord Man
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
Yet another lazy fucking noob.
__________________
Sweet |
|
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 05:57 PM
|
#29 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
|
Quote:
Yeah, if you call trying to learn something, and making use of a program/a person whose knowledge exceeds mine to point out where I'm making mistakes so that I can identify and thus correct them (not leaning on it to avoid doing the work but to check my answers), sure, you're absolutely right! Fucking lazy! So fucking lazy... I hope I wasn't. Would be such a fucking lot better if I just learned everything on my own, never asked questions to clarify unclear situations, and never learned that I got it all wrong from the start! At least you could call me a hard working fuck! But okay. A new question for those who want to support me in my learning process: If I'm going in D minor and I have an Ab6(or +5, or whatever) chord, am I correct to label it Vb6? Also, would an E major be just II, or do I have to do something special to indicate that it's not the normal ii dim chord expected in the scale? I've googled around for this, and have not found a clear answer. Last edited by Aukikco : 02-15-2013 at 05:58 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 06:44 PM
|
#30 |
|
I think, therefore, I am.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
In D minor, an E major chord would not be labeled as II. In roman numeral analysis, that does not exist. It would be analyzed as a secondary dominant chord, this it would be labeled as a V/V or "Five of five" since an E major is the V or A, which is the dominant in D minor.
As for the first question, I'm assuming you mean an A major chord with an altered degree (A, C#, E#). If you are referring to it as a +5, or augmented chord, it would be labeled as simply V+. The chord A, C#, E, F would be not be a b6, but a F major 7 augmented, but that's up for debate.
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line. "The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche My Website |
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
|
#31 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
|
Quote:
How do I know when to look for (=even consider the possibility) of a secondary dominant? Last edited by Aukikco : 02-15-2013 at 07:05 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 07:07 PM
|
#32 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
|
Ah, I just realized one mistake of mine:
The progression in question is F-Dm-F-Dm-F-Em-A7 (after which it heads back to a part starting with Dm, which is the key of the song). So it's an E minor, not a major. Would that be a ii, then? (I'm still also interested in an answer to my previous question about the secondary dominant  |
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 07:21 PM
|
#33 | |
|
UG's Mr Chord Man
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Quote:
Ok man, sorry about before. You explained your reasonings. This here (the highlighted) is a ii-V movement. Very common in jazz to "ii-V your way in to" a chord. Ex. Em - A7 is a ii-V preparation for the Dm. It would be more theoretically correct to label the Em as Em7b5 but it's no big deal. This can work in so many areas.
__________________
Sweet Last edited by mdc : 02-15-2013 at 07:23 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 07:43 PM
|
#34 | ||
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
|
Quote:
Glad to know it came through  Quote:
Even if it's actually not an Edim chord but just an Em? Do explain! |
||
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 07:55 PM
|
#35 |
|
UG's Mr Chord Man
Join Date: Feb 2008
|
Take that progression F-Dm.....
Instead of going F - Dm - F... you can "ii-V'' your way back into the F, like this F - Dm - Gm7 - C9 - F In that example, all chords belong to the key, but it can get more interesting...
__________________
Sweet Last edited by mdc : 02-15-2013 at 07:56 PM. |
|
|
|
|
02-15-2013, 11:24 PM
|
#36 | |
|
I think, therefore, I am.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
Quote:
The reason it is correctly labeled a Emin7b5 (half diminished) is because, in minor, the triad built off of the 2nd scale degree is diminished. If you think of minor as a "mode" of the major scale, then, the first note is vi, likewise, the 2nd note is vii. It can still be a regular E minor, it would just involve an accidental. So, technically, you would be utilizing the melodic minor scale (with Em) instead of the natural minor scale (Edim). This is because changing the Edim (E, G, Bb) to Em (E,G,B) raises the 6th degree of the scale (Bb to B). This is a primary give away for melodic minor. Secondary dominants can be identified by a two criteria. 1) Major chord where it doesn't belong, in this instance an E major. 2) It must be used to "tonicize" (or temporary modulate) a chord that is not the tonic of the stated key. So, "E" major will tonicize "A" major which then resolves to it's tonic "D" minor (in this case). Hence the term "secondary dominant", or, "V of V".
__________________
2010 Gibson SG Honeyburst I'm a musician, a composer, and a theory nut. Pleased to meet you! Check out my websites and drop me a line. "The essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. " ~ Freidrich Nietzche My Website Last edited by Angusman60 : 02-15-2013 at 11:29 PM. |
|
|
|
|
 |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
| Thread Tools | Rate This Thread | |
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:10 AM.