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Old 02-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #1
hammett11
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Multi-track interfaces

Hey, I have a question about a product such as this

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...-midi-interface

It may be a stupid question... it says 16 inputs and 4 outputs.
The interface I'm using now only has two inputs and I use USB to record everything to my computer. When it says 4 outputs, is that a limit on USB outputs as well?
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:15 PM   #2
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No. It uses USB as the output for audio tracks being recorded. The 'four outputs' refers to physical outputs on the device (e.g L-R stereo output, and two headphone outputs, or some other combination of outputs).
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:18 PM   #3
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No. It uses USB as the output for audio tracks being recorded. The 'four outputs' refers to physical outputs on the device (e.g L-R stereo output, and two headphone outputs, or some other combination of outputs).



Great. That's what I was hoping and thinking. Thank you very much.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
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I dont want to be a troll or something, but if you have a PCI or PCI express slot in your computer... USE IT. I work in a music shop and if i would get a dollar for every person who is complaining about latency and USB interfaces i'd be a millionaire by now.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:50 PM   #5
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I dont want to be a troll or something, but if you have a PCI or PCI express slot in your computer... USE IT. I work in a music shop and if i would get a dollar for every person who is complaining about latency and USB interfaces i'd be a millionaire by now.



I don't think you're trying to troll. I appreciate opinions. I'm using a USB interface now and it's working okay. I am a little concerned about running that many at once and it affecting latency. Currently I have to rig the drum setup to record, So I'm only using two tracks at once and there's no latency.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #6
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I dont want to be a troll or something, but if you have a PCI or PCI express slot in your computer... USE IT. I work in a music shop and if i would get a dollar for every person who is complaining about latency and USB interfaces i'd be a millionaire by now.

You'd also be getting money from stupid people, well done.

There is nothing wrong with the latency of any current generation interface provided it is well-thought out. USB is more than capable of carrying plenty of audio channels at high sample rates and if it wasn't there would not be millions and millions of happy customers, and engineers and studios using devices that connect via USB or FireWire.

You obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about, or you are kicking up a fuss about nothing to troll/seem cool, but I'll humour you for a second. Do you realise that there are almost zero decent value PCIe-based setups out there at the entry-level, other than a few Steinberg cards. The vast majority of the rest are made by budget brands and have no reputable standards. As for PCI, that's a dead format - nothing new comes out with PCI apart from very specific gear that would be targeted at very niche markets (and usually costs far more than what TS is after).


TS, please completely ignore the advice to plug into a PCI/PCIe card - it is useless in your situation.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hammett11
I don't think you're trying to troll. I appreciate opinions. I'm using a USB interface now and it's working okay. I am a little concerned about running that many at once and it affecting latency. Currently I have to rig the drum setup to record, So I'm only using two tracks at once and there's no latency.

Wait until you add more to that list. Try some modern Vst instruments like omnisphere, or vst effects for that matter. Usb interfaces it pretty much where hardware beats software, the hardware generally can do it, but the software is pretty much not up for it.

In my studio i tried some USB interfaces and every time they dont deliver. Using Waves plugins, some vst stuff like omnisphere and stuff like that. Come to think about it, most studio's i have been in run on PCI, or firewire... but firewire is dying unfortunately
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You'd also be getting money from stupid people, well done.

There is nothing wrong with the latency of any current generation interface provided it is well-thought out. USB is more than capable of carrying plenty of audio channels at high sample rates and if it wasn't there would not be millions and millions of happy customers, and engineers and studios using devices that connect via USB or FireWire.

You obviously haven't got a clue what you're talking about, or you are kicking up a fuss about nothing to troll/seem cool, but I'll humour you for a second. Do you realise that there are almost zero decent value PCIe-based setups out there at the entry-level, other than a few Steinberg cards. The vast majority of the rest are made by budget brands and have no reputable standards. As for PCI, that's a dead format - nothing new comes out with PCI apart from very specific gear that would be targeted at very niche markets (and usually costs far more than what TS is after).


TS, please completely ignore the advice to plug into a PCI/PCIe card - it is useless in your situation.

lol... ever heard of UAD?
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #9
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lol... ever heard of UAD?

UAD have various routes to use their gear, what is your point? All their latest stuff is moving to FireWire and Thunderbolt (take a look at their site yourself), but again... how is that relevant to TS? Their only currently-advertised PCIe system is for DSP... not an audio interface, and therefore is completely unrelated. It's also rather expensive, and A NICHE MARKET.

I'm not getting into an argument, if you feel you've 'won' then great - go back to your little cloud where audio interfaces aren't good enough to record proper studio sessions with and 'all the pro's use PCI' etc. I bet you're also someone who feels any place that doesn't have a Pro Tools HD system is not a proper studio?
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by B&J
I dont want to be a troll or something, but if you have a PCI or PCI express slot in your computer... USE IT. I work in a music shop and if i would get a dollar for every person who is complaining about latency and USB interfaces i'd be a millionaire by now.



I used to utilize a Tascam US-2000 USB interface. I didn't have any latency issues with it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
UAD have various routes to use their gear, what is your point? All their latest stuff is moving to FireWire and Thunderbolt (take a look at their site yourself), but again... how is that relevant to TS? Their only currently-advertised PCIe system is for DSP... not an audio interface, and therefore is completely unrelated. It's also rather expensive, and A NICHE MARKET.

I'm not getting into an argument, if you feel you've 'won' then great - go back to your little cloud where audio interfaces aren't good enough to record proper studio sessions with and 'all the pro's use PCI' etc. I bet you're also someone who feels any place that doesn't have a Pro Tools HD system is not a proper studio?

Nopz in fact i dont give a rats ass about your workstation. Its the person who plays the instrument who is gonna make the difference. I do however think a soundcard that actually delivers each and everytime will make your music better. And to my humble opinion an USB interface doesnt.

I wasnt sure we all had to agree with you... I'm sorry.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:06 PM   #12
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I used to utilize a Tascam US-2000 USB interface. I didn't have any latency issues with it.

Clearly you aren't a proper engineer then


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Originally Posted by B&J
Wait until you add more to that list. Try some modern Vst instruments like omnisphere, or vst effects for that matter. Usb interfaces it pretty much where hardware beats software, the hardware generally can do it, but the software is pretty much not up for it.

In my studio i tried some USB interfaces and every time they dont deliver. Using Waves plugins, some vst stuff like omnisphere and stuff like that. Come to think about it, most studio's i have been in run on PCI, or firewire... but firewire is dying unfortunately

I've just realised (B&J) - you seriously think that your audio interface dictates the ability of your computer to run Waves plug-ins and VST instruments?

And no, people don't have to agree with me (and me and the other mod even debate stuff and have differing opinions on stuff plenty of times and I accept that) but if you are too blinded to accept USB as a viable technology in professional studios, you are just being ignorant and I'm going to call you out on it if there is a risk that a new and relatively-inexperienced (to interfaces) user may be persuaded against a perfectly-fine choice to get into recording.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:08 PM   #13
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Clearly you aren't a proper engineer then


By the way, I've just realised (B&J) - you seriously think that your audio interface dictates the ability of your computer to run Waves plug-ins and VST instruments?

Uhhm yes? Unless you like latency or you dont use a whole lot of tracks. Of course there's more stuff that comes to play but a good soundcard will make a whole lot of difference.

Especially dsp ones, since they have build in memory....
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:09 PM   #14
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Clearly you aren't a proper engineer then


LOL. Nope! That's why I'm an electronics technician. Besides, aren't engineers the guys who drive trains?
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:14 PM   #15
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LOL. Nope! That's why I'm an electronics technician. Besides, aren't engineers the guys who drive trains?

Yep, I think so - and they laugh at all the noobs with their trains with engines that aren't made of a metal so don't deliver


Seriously though, I'm sure you were just imagining the lack of latency with your device

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Originally Posted by B&J
Uhhm yes? Unless you like latency or you dont use a whole lot of tracks. Of course there's more stuff that comes to play but a good soundcard will make a whole lot of difference.

Especially dsp ones, since they have build in memory....

So you don't realise that the RAM in your computer runs software instruments and plug-ins, in your DAW? Your computer doesn't open the plug-in, send the signal to the interface for processing, then back to the computer again to record the information (if routing to another track) and finally through the main output track back to the interface and then through D/A conversion to the interface output...

DSP for your UAD stuff is there because Universal Audio want to tie their plug-ins to hardware (reduces the likelihood of piracy) and the DSP takes the strain off your computer's RAM.

Why do you think when you open up a soft synth and load up some samples many of them have a readout at the bottom detailing how much RAM is being used? Even if the interface had to do some stage in between, the RAM would still dictate far more of the overall latency for plug-ins and soft-synths. The interface, when mixing, plays back the sound... it doesn't calculate all the stuff done in your DAW, or else you'd need a 40+ channel interface just to mix a session with that many tracks.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:30 PM   #16
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Yep, I think so - and they laugh at all the noobs with their trains with engines that aren't made of a metal so don't deliver


Seriously though, I'm sure you were just imagining the lack of latency with your device


So you don't realise that the RAM in your computer runs software instruments and plug-ins, in your DAW? Your computer doesn't open the plug-in, send the signal to the interface for processing, then back to the computer again to record the information (if routing to another track) and finally through the main output track back to the interface and then through D/A conversion to the interface output...

DSP for your UAD stuff is there because Universal Audio want to tie their plug-ins to hardware (reduces the likelihood of piracy) and the DSP takes the strain off your computer's RAM.

Why do you think when you open up a soft synth and load up some samples many of them have a readout at the bottom detailing how much RAM is being used? Even if the interface had to do some stage in between, the RAM would still dictate far more of the overall latency for plug-ins and soft-synths. The interface, when mixing, plays back the sound... it doesn't calculate all the stuff done in your DAW, or else you'd need a 40+ channel interface just to mix a session with that many tracks.


With all respect, i set up studio's pretty much every day. I dont speak english in a native way so maybe that is what is causing a problem. I know ram means very much, i also know having high ram, plus a soundcard that delivers, and uses DSP makes your CPU use your DAW and the heavy load will be on your soundcard's memory. That just takes the heavy work out of your CPU.

About USB, you can love it as much as you want, but it will never be as direct as a PCI card. Its not for nothing those cards are more expensive. Sure UAD cards are not exactly cheap, in fact i use a RME hammerfall Hdspe card myself which i love .

Over time i have seen so many amateur studios having problems where they want to use, first of all, way to much plugins cuz they didnt record properly to begin with... but ok... thats another argument. Usb is just not cutting it generally.... at least that is my field experience with this.

Best thing in the world would be if ppl would understand they need a treated room.... then a usb card will work cause you dont need that much plugins to fix problems.

We agree to disagree i guess

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Old 02-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #17
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I came across as harsh, and I apologise for that - perhaps the language barrier is part of the problem. But hopefully you understand enough to distinguish between the following:

Audio interfaces are a combination of mic preamps and A/D conversion. They typically come in USB and FireWire format because these are the most commonly available on most computers. PCI cards can be audio interfaces in the same way, but this is only another way of doing the same thing - the USB and FireWire units still perform just as well, and I'd much rather have the nice pre's and conversion of a Focusrite or Apogee interface, than having a smaller range to pick from if I went with PCI (if you're a Mac user, that also means getting a Mac Pro as the other Macs do not have PCI/PCIe ports).

UAD use PCI for something completely different - they are DSP cards, much like the way older Pro Tools HD systems ran, with an interface and DSP. The interface (as in preamps and converters) did not do any of the processing of plug-ins; the DSP cards in the interfaces were programmed to take the strain off the computers and are never part of the same signal path as the incoming audio being recorded.

I don't want to belittle your job, so instead I'll just say that perhaps you are a little behind with the current generation of audio interfaces? Even the cheapest interfaces are more than capable of running with low latency these days, and Apogee use USB for their flagship Symphony I/O which is definitely not a cheap or low-quality interface (in fact, I'd take the Apogee over 99% of the stuff on the market, excluding perhaps Lynx Aurora's [FireWire, not just PCI] and PrismSound Orpheus' [again, can run on FireWire]).
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
I came across as harsh, and I apologise for that - perhaps the language barrier is part of the problem. But hopefully you understand enough to distinguish between the following:

Audio interfaces are a combination of mic preamps and A/D conversion. They typically come in USB and FireWire format because these are the most commonly available on most computers. PCI cards can be audio interfaces in the same way, but this is only another way of doing the same thing - the USB and FireWire units still perform just as well, and I'd much rather have the nice pre's and conversion of a Focusrite or Apogee interface, than having a smaller range to pick from if I went with PCI (if you're a Mac user, that also means getting a Mac Pro as the other Macs do not have PCI/PCIe ports).

UAD use PCI for something completely different - they are DSP cards, much like the way older Pro Tools HD systems ran, with an interface and DSP. The interface (as in preamps and converters) did not do any of the processing of plug-ins; the DSP cards in the interfaces were programmed to take the strain off the computers and are never part of the same signal path as the incoming audio being recorded.

I don't want to belittle your job, so instead I'll just say that perhaps you are a little behind with the current generation of audio interfaces? Even the cheapest interfaces are more than capable of running with low latency these days, and Apogee use USB for their flagship Symphony I/O which is definitely not a cheap or low-quality interface (in fact, I'd take the Apogee over 99% of the stuff on the market, excluding perhaps Lynx Aurora's [FireWire, not just PCI] and PrismSound Orpheus' [again, can run on FireWire]).


Well lets put it like this... i work in a pro audio setting i guess. I never came across a big studio that would use USB over a PCI card. Usb is a step in between, most people, especially ppl who do movie music for instance, they dont want a step in between. Most of theire projects are 50 tracks + and every track has at least 10 effects. As far as i know, an USB device wont cut that.

If i'm wrong... im indeed not up to date.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #19
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Well lets put it like this... i work in a pro audio setting i guess. I never came across a big studio that would use USB over a PCI card. Usb is a step in between, most people, especially ppl who do movie music for instance, they dont want a step in between. Most of theire projects are 50 tracks + and every track has at least 10 effects. As far as i know, an USB device wont cut that.

If i'm wrong... im indeed not up to date.


You aren't wrong in the fact that pro studios don't use PCI/PCI-Express, its just you're talking Pro Studios with $$$$$$$$$$$$ invested into gear versus a home studio where someone wants to get setup for less than $300. As far as latency, the difference between a Pro Tools HDX setup and a USB 2.0 interface is about 7 milliseconds. Thats 7/100ths of a second difference in speed. If you can tell the difference, good for you.

PCI or USB doesn't effect how many plugins you can use, thats a PC issue. I have 2 systems I record with, my laptop with an older Core i3 processor via USB and my new desktop with a Core i5 3570k via Firewire. My i5 can handle way more tracks. Why? Because I've got more processing power to play with. Hell, it could be the other way around interface wise and I'd still be able to do more. I feel bad for all the people you've sold products to and given bad product suggestions to.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #20
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You aren't wrong in the fact that pro studios don't use PCI/PCI-Express, its just you're talking Pro Studios with $$$$$$$$$$$$ invested into gear versus a home studio where someone wants to get setup for less than $300. As far as latency, the difference between a Pro Tools HDX setup and a USB 2.0 interface is about 7 milliseconds. Thats 7/100ths of a second difference in speed. If you can tell the difference, good for you.

PCI or USB doesn't effect how many plugins you can use, thats a PC issue. I have 2 systems I record with, my laptop with an older Core i3 processor via USB and my new desktop with a Core i5 3570k via Firewire. My i5 can handle way more tracks. Why? Because I've got more processing power to play with. Hell, it could be the other way around interface wise and I'd still be able to do more. I feel bad for all the people you've sold products to and given bad product suggestions to.

Lol i'm gonna stop commenting here now. This is going nowhere.
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