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Old 02-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #1
guitarwarrior96
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Problems with my picking

Hi, i've been playing for 2 years now, I can play fairly well things like Trivium, Metallica, Even little bit of Sylosis. I'm currently development my Sweep picking (wich I'm already quite good), but I noticed a serious problem; I can't play things like this:
E|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
B|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
G|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
D|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A|-------7---9---------7---9---10---9------7---9-------12---10---9---
E|-0-0----0---0-0-0----0---0----0----0-0---0---0-0-0----0----0---0-----
(8th notes at 240 BPM)
Even the Master Of Puppets intro, I can play them right 2 or 3 times in a round, but after that, my wrist gives up and I start to play all messy.
I Had tried to slow those kind of Riffs down to 180, or even 160 BPM and everything works fine, but when I speed them up to 200, my wrist starts to get tire :/
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #2
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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You almost certainly need to relax and use smaller movements. Unfortunately for you, it's onle possible to work on this stuff when you're playing slowly enough that you can control everything you're doing.

It probably won't seem like you're having any effect at first but it's the kind of thing that you need to do often and it'll filter through in to your playing over all. Just as another question: are you trying to downpick those riffs?
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
You almost certainly need to relax and use smaller movements. Unfortunately for you, it's onle possible to work on this stuff when you're playing slowly enough that you can control everything you're doing.

It probably won't seem like you're having any effect at first but it's the kind of thing that you need to do often and it'll filter through in to your playing over all. Just as another question: are you trying to downpick those riffs?


Thanks ^w^.
No, i'm not downpicking. Actually I can't downpick at all, I never tried to develop my down picking since it's useless, I mean: everything can be play using Alternate picking and in most of the cases, it's better and faster than down picking.
I don't want to carry this picking problem much more further, so i thing I'll spend the next couple of weeks in development this "2 strings" picking, and after that, I will continue with the sweep . I'll start at 150 and every week I will increse it 10 BPM
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarwarrior96
Thanks ^w^.
No, i'm not downpicking. Actually I can't downpick at all, I never tried to develop my down picking since it's useless, I mean: everything can be play using Alternate picking and in most of the cases, it's better and faster than down picking.


Find me anyone who can make downpicking and alternate picking sound exactly the same, then we'll talk about 'better'. I have yet to meet or hear anyone who actually can, although I've heard people who claimed they could but were wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarwarrior96
I don't want to carry this picking problem much more further, so i thing I'll spend the next couple of weeks in development this "2 strings" picking, and after that, I will continue with the sweep . I'll start at 150 and every week I will increse it 10 BPM


NO. You're missing the point. Don't speed up, you need to stay at a speed where you can work on it effectively. You can try playing it at speed when you want but you can't alter your technique if you're not playing at a snail's pace; any faster and you rely on muscle memory and then you can't change anything.

Also, forcing yourself to stick to some schedule of when you think you should speed up is just setting yourself up for failure; at some point you will almost certainly end up overreaching yourself slightly and forcing yourself to play it at speed with terrible technique. By doing so you will do nothing but build, teach yourself and ingrain bad habits.

As I said, trying to play it up to pace every so often is fine - you need to get used to the sensation of playing up to speed anyway, but you should never force it. If you can't do something it's a sign that your technique isn't up to it, unless it's a stamina issue which should only really be an issue after a few minutes of playing at least.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:14 PM   #5
guitarwarrior96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Find me anyone who can make downpicking and alternate picking sound exactly the same, then we'll talk about 'better'. I have yet to meet or hear anyone who actually can, although I've heard people who claimed they could but were wrong.



NO. You're missing the point. Don't speed up, you need to stay at a speed where you can work on it effectively. You can try playing it at speed when you want but you can't alter your technique if you're not playing at a snail's pace; any faster and you rely on muscle memory and then you can't change anything.

Also, forcing yourself to stick to some schedule of when you think you should speed up is just setting yourself up for failure; at some point you will almost certainly end up overreaching yourself slightly and forcing yourself to play it at speed with terrible technique. By doing so you will do nothing but build, teach yourself and ingrain bad habits.

As I said, trying to play it up to pace every so often is fine - you need to get used to the sensation of playing up to speed anyway, but you should never force it. If you can't do something it's a sign that your technique isn't up to it, unless it's a stamina issue which should only really be an issue after a few minutes of playing at least.



Got it, Don't speed up unless I really feel 100% confortable. practise my TECHNIQUE at slow speed so I can work out my technique in step of just a riff.
Thanks mate ^w^
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:48 AM   #6
vayne92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Find me anyone who can make downpicking and alternate picking sound exactly the same, then we'll talk about 'better'. I have yet to meet or hear anyone who actually can, although I've heard people who claimed they could but were wrong.


This. I've heard many people say if you can get the EXACT same attack on your upstrokes and downstrokes then it'll sound the same as downpicking. I'm sure it's significantly more scientific than that however, not to mention i've never seen anyone who claims that it's possible do it. If you're playing stuff like Metallica and Trivium you NEED to learn to downpick. And if you branch out from those bands then you're still gonna need it. Almost every metal band uses downpicking at some point. Some more heavily than others. Parkway Drive immediately springs to mind when i think of downpicking. It's a band that's a favourite of mine and their downpicking riffs are significantly harder and faster than Metallica.

Downpicking pretty much defines metal / thrash metal though. I'd almost say you're playing the wrong genre if you can't downpick.
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Last edited by vayne92 : 02-03-2013 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:42 AM   #7
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The reason you are failing at Master Of Puppets even though you play it alternate picking after 2-3 times is cause your basics are not there.

a) I'd learn down picking. James is a master of it. Master Of Puppets has a lot of down picking (even the intro).
b) I'd also learn alternate picking. Dimebag (RIP) of Pantera plays alot with this method. He uses alternate picking for the verse in Cowboys from Hell.
c) Maybe learn up strokes. When Paul Gilbert started guitar, he didnt know how to play down or alternate picking so he used a lot of up strokes.

Assuming you play all 3 methods at 220 bpm, they all will give you a different tone. For example, I personally feel, Master Of Puppets played down/up doesn't sound as good as down only. I've seen some do down, down, up which is also unique in tone and to me sounds better than down/up.

So learn all three (or at least the down and alternate) and see which situation requires the best use.

What you also need to focus on with picking is accents and timing. Like always, start slow on the metronome..get stamina and consistency and then increase by 8. Do the same thing and then increase by 8. If you want to master down picking, play along to master of puppets. Its around 220BPM and you need a lot of stamina. Find a software that can slow down the track and play along.

If I read the riff above correctly, then it's alternate picking as I see some triplets. It's very Metallica like riff so playing alot of stuff from the first 4 albums (especially MOP and AJFA) will help develop that technique.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rizalkhan
If I read the riff above correctly, then it's alternate picking as I see some triplets. It's very Metallica like riff so playing alot of stuff from the first 4 albums (especially MOP and AJFA) will help develop that technique.


It's not. It's all downpicked in straight 8ths, it's Ember To Inferno by Trivium; somewhere up around 220bpm but they play it significantly faster live.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
It's not. It's all downpicked in straight 8ths, it's Ember To Inferno by Trivium; somewhere up around 220bpm but they play it significantly faster live.


Sorry. I've never heard the riff so I assumed there were triplets. 240 is then doable but stamina might be a problem without practice. All the best
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