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Old 02-04-2013, 03:42 AM   #21
Dregen
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he kinda got put into a shitty situation
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:53 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by shredder3386
Fair enough. Although I'd counter with the fact that 99% of video games and movies portray someone who kills people as a hero. Not to mention cops who sometimes have to kill to protect, or just the troops in general who fought so others didn't have to (not even mentioning "new wars." Think about WWI and WWII). If we could all live peacefully and run through flowers that'd be great but sadly we don't live in that world.


Wait, are you comparing life to video games and movies?

To be fair, blue-eyed pacifism won't get us anywhere, and I'm not against war generally.

But we often forget one thing: this man did not score "150 kills...holy shit". He took the life of 150 brothers, fathers and sons who fought for no higher or lesser cause than he did.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:54 AM   #23
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Spreading Islam and car bombing crowded market places is definitely a lesser cause than his. The insurgents werent good people by any means. They were thugs and murderes, the sickest of any kind. Willing to murder scores of people just because of being apart of a different sect.

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Old 02-04-2013, 04:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ErnestoFidel
Wait, are you comparing life to video games and movies?

To be fair, blue-eyed pacifism won't get us anywhere, and I'm not against war generally.

But we often forget one thing: this man did not score "150 kills...holy shit". He took the life of 150 brothers, fathers and sons who fought for no higher or lesser cause than he did.


I wasn't comparing video games/movies to real life to show similarities, but rather to illustrate that we live in a world that praises people who kill as heroes which you seemed to find completely unheard of. Obviously you can look at it from the other side, as there are always two sides to every conflict. However if it came between shooting someone who was trying to kill me and my friends and letting him shoot us instead the choice seems pretty obvious. No one is saying the people he killed shouldn't get sympathy.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:22 AM   #25
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Shredder, the question then becomes why would you insert yourself in a position in which you and your friends lives were in danger?

Military service is completely voluntary (at the moment) so the 'kill or be killed' argument falls a bit short.

It would only be relevant if there was conscription.

Furthermore, there are plenty of military roles that consist of making attacks without much risk of being attacked, like drone operators. They are in no immediate danger.

/devil's advocate

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Old 02-04-2013, 04:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TooktheAtrain
Shredder, the question then becomes why would you insert yourself in a position in which you and your friends lives were in danger?

Military service is completely voluntary (at the moment) so the 'kill or be killed' argument falls a bit short.

It would only be relevant if there was conscription.

Furthermore, there are plenty of military roles that consist of making attacks without much risk of being attacked, like drone operators. They are in no immediate danger.

/devil's advocate


Agreed,although my example was hypothetical. People's reasons for joining the military may differ. Sure there are people who might join just to see some action, but lots of others join to protect and serve their country. Not to mention with the shitty economy it very well be the only job some people can get. No one wants to be put in a kill or be killed position (cops especially have no control over this) but depending on your line of work it happens. Before the "why doesn't everyone just stop fighting card?" is pulled you can be assured the minute you lay down your arms someone else will take them up. People have to be in those roles, therefore the kill-or-be-killed situation happens whether we agree with it or not.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:41 AM   #27
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Agreed, mostly. However, the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc. are not defensive but offensive. They cannot be fairly characterised as necessary to America's survival.

It is true that there are people who are disadvantaged or underprivileged, and join the military for the benefits it offers. However, that doesn't justify their actions in a moral sense. (if we're to say killing is always wrong, an opinion I don't necessarily hold)

On the assumption that killing is wrong, a soldier who has been compelled to enlist by poverty is like a robber who steals jewlery to feed his kids. Understandable? Yes. Excusable? No.

still playing devil's advocate in case anyone gets the wrong idea.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:50 AM   #28
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What world do we live in to honor someone who kills people as a hero?

He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:16 AM   #29
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:19 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TooktheAtrain
Agreed, mostly. However, the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc. are not defensive but offensive. They cannot be fairly characterised as necessary to America's survival.

It is true that there are people who are disadvantaged or underprivileged, and join the military for the benefits it offers. However, that doesn't justify their actions in a moral sense. (if we're to say killing is always wrong, an opinion I don't necessarily hold)

On the assumption that killing is wrong, a soldier who has been compelled to enlist by poverty is like a robber who steals jewlery to feed his kids. Understandable? Yes. Excusable? No.

still playing devil's advocate in case anyone gets the wrong idea.


True, although by equating a robber stealing jewelry to someone joining the military you are suggesting they are morally the same which is untrue. The act of stealing is wrong, whereas the act of enlisting in the military isn't. You cant assume everyone who joins the Military will kill someone because many, many soldiers do not. It can be like any other job. Its just something that has the possibility to happen. Therefore saying its morally inexcusable to want a career in the military sector is unfair.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:20 AM   #31
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To survive 4 tours in Iraq only to be killed once you've returned home. By someone he was trying to help nonetheless.
I read American Sniper recently and really liked it. I definitily recommend it to anyone who's interested in warfare.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:26 AM   #32
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so let me get this straight.

He had a weapon to hand, he was trained to be effective with it, and he still got killed?

Obviously he needed more guns.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:35 AM   #33
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:36 AM   #34
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Was it a head shot?
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:41 AM   #35
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It's hard to defend yourself when you're looking the other way.

you mean more guns wouldn't have helped?

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:54 AM   #36
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If only some good guy had a gun
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:27 AM   #37
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He killed 150 people, yet himself could only be killed once.

For now, at least... *whirls cape and goes into secret basement lab*
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #38
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:58 AM   #39
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150!?!

Holy ****
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:52 AM   #40
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He had the highest K/D ratio ever recorded.
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