VanTheKraut

Or you can recognize that that person, regardless of what politicians and leaders do, has made the sacrifice that is a life in the military, has willingly gone into a situation where he may be injured, scarred mentally or physically, maimed, or killed, in service to his country and the citizens thereof. And then, having recognized the sacrifices that that guy made, you could thank and respect him.

My cousin AJ will never be able to lift his right arm above his head or lift more than 60 pounds again because of injuries he sustained in Afganistan when his convoy was ambushed. He volunteered the week after 9/11, his military service shattered his marriage, he suffers from flashbacks a few times a month, in service of his country. Just an anecdote, but I don't believe you're a rational thinking person if you don't recognize and respect such sacrifice.

__________________

Kansas State Wildcats

macashmack

People don't seem to have respect for anything anymore.

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

TooktheAtrain

I certainly don't respect people who gloss over the mutilation of thousands of generations of babies.

I would go as far as to say such people probably don't deserve any respect at all.

macashmack

That is very upsetting. However, without proper healthcare the children and future children will never be able to get help. And there isn't very good access to healthcare, and the healthcare isn't of very good quality. And in order for that to change the system needs to be changed.

Are you/were you in the military? If you were, Thank you for your service.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

VanTheKraut

I suppose those babies were doing just fine while Saddam Hussein was using mustard gas to exterminate Kurds, and using all forms of murder, torture, and intimidation to suppress political dissent.

Clearly Basra, Iraq was one happy rainbow valley before the United States stepped in.

__________________

Kansas State Wildcats

TooktheAtrain

Of course not. However, the use of DU rounds has compounded the situation to the point where Basra will be a cancer breeding shithole for the rest of time (from a human perspective)

Ever hear the aphorism 'two wrongs don't make a right'?

Dreadnought

I still am, and thanks.



If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

It's sloppy. It's convoluted. It's two-faced. It's shitty politics. It doesn't work.

__________________
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

Do yourself a favor and start working out.

magnus_maximus

That isn't the point he's making.

Regardless, had the people of Iraq wanted freedom as badly as we reckon, surely they would have revolted? Unless you were a Kurd (Kurds get treated like shit everywhere though, but they're not Jews so nobody gives a shit).

My understanding is that most of the killing was inflicted on Kurds and much of Iraq didn't care. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: I'm not sure what I was getting at here and this is a pretty awful post...

__________________

UG's Scottish Leftist Republican

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation.

Lemoninfluence

I may not be able to judge the majority by the actions of the minority, but I can be suspicious of them until I'm certain they're not the arseholes.



Because the other side's soldiers are willing to do the same. So either it's a pointless affair with unnecessary death or one side is 'good' and the other 'bad'. In which case the soldiers themselves aren't what's to be respected, it's the cause and their willingness to stand up for it that I respect.

However that only applies if you believe in the cause.

I don't hate soldiers. And I'd be grateful for their service if/when it's needed. But I don't buy into the bullshit that they're all heroes.

__________________
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

shredder3386

This is extremely well said. Considering both these guys were volunteering their time to help people with PTSD for no other reason than to help, I think everyone seems to be missing the point as to why this sucks so much and is tragic.

__________________
What gives me wood:

Gibson Les Paul Custom
Ibanez S5470F
Schecter Hellraiser C-7 FR
Ibanez RGA8
Axe FX II

macashmack

If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

It's sloppy. It's convoluted. It's two-faced. It's shitty politics. It doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
So far i am being swayed, but may I ask, what do you think such an entity would be that would do that?
Also, if you don't mind my inquiring, what position are you in the military?

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

magnus_maximus

Again, I agree totally with you.

__________________

UG's Scottish Leftist Republican

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation.

bradulator

edited for accuracy

__________________

Lemoninfluence

Because you have to be a nutjob libertarian to see police abuse and military atrocities.

__________________
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Dreadnought

If I had my way, none.



THE BEST

__________________
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

Do yourself a favor and start working out.

ihartfood

Oh shit. I had a friend that used to go to that range on weekends.
and I was like a mile away when this happened.

__________________
My Rig
Like Telecasters?

macashmack

Well, say you couldn't have your way? And the military would still need to go in first to remove the current system.

So.... DEVGRU? Im sorry if what I asked was too personal.

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

Skynyrd890

Nah man, they signed up for it, so they obviously deserve every mental and physical injury they receive! Don't be stupid, the world would be better if no country had soldiers!

__________________

macashmack

Are you being for real? I will answer assuming you are:
Don't be stupid and think that a country can survive without soldiers/ a military.

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.