AeolianWolf

if you haven't been having any success then you've been doing it wrong. the most important justifying factor to a method is its results. then cost is measured. however we're not discussing ways to use religion to subdue the public - we're discussing methods of musical education.

i say this so you learn one crucial rule: personal opinions (particularly those of people who are not established in their field) are worthless.

the first post was really all you needed - all the theory in the world is useless if you don't know how to use your ears to get something out of it. but if your attitude or ego is such that you'd rather pick fights with him over the way he phrased what you needed to hear, then you're going to miss the message. and you're going to end up with no more real knowledge than you had before you started this thread. there's a reason we have the saying "once a fool, always a fool."

hotspur's a nice guy, and he's very knowledgeable about his craft. if you start shit, he'll be nice about it and say "listen, man, i'm just helping you out. it's your call what you want to do with my advice." he's not going to waste energy putting you in your place.

probably because he knows there are people like me to do that for him.

you want to take that attitude? that's fine, i'm not going to tell you how to live your life. i just hope you're prepared to deal with the shit results you're inevitably going to get.

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D..W..

Hotspur was probably nicer about it then some other people would have been. And he was right. You had an honest question and he had an (although stingingly so) honest answer. You can't learn how to write choruses and verses from any of us, or anyone else, without just trying it. People here get a little tired of hearing 'will this sound good' 'how do I write this' type questions. We can't answer that, you won't learn it from us. You just have to do it, and as much as it may suck to not have a cut-and-dry answer, it'll start to make sense. Just listen- really listen. Listen to some songs you like and pay attention to each part. Pay attention to the tension, the build, climax, release etc. You'll get the feel for it and eventually you'll just be able to do it without even thinking about it (I can do it sometimes, most of the time not though. It takes time and practice). And if you think you're doing it wrong, tweak with what your doing. If you're trying to write a chorus part, keep tweaking (with the riff. Not with drugs ^_^ ) until you figure out what sounds right to you. It'll sound terrible for a while, at least to you. But you'll figure it out eventually through trial and error. If you do something and wrong and recognize you did it wrong (although only you will think it's wrong), then it's a building block that is important for you to figure out what's right.

Sleepy__Head

I was thinking of an interview with Paul McCartney where he got asked how they began to write, and his answer was that they would listen to Buddy Holly songs and think "How does he /do/ that?", and then try to do that. Not sure about studying the music they loved ... When they were 15 it was probably more a case of picking up a guitar, learning how to play some chords and then learning how to play some stuff off the radio.

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Sloop John D

There's quite a few. Paul McCartney said he learned early on that the bridge, which he often referred to as the "middle eight," was a very important part of any song, so the Beatles usually tried to do something interesting to make the song stand out.

"From Me To You" has a key change for the two bridges and was supposedly the first time the Beatles discovered modulation.

"Something" is another song that changes key in the bridge. I like this song because the bridge is arguably the catchiest part of the song, but it only occurs the one time. If you want to hear it again you have to listen to the song again, which forces people to listen to the song over and over.

George Harrison's song "Here Comes the Sun" has an interesting and complex rhythmic change for the bridge that some people have referred to as "Metrical Modulation." He uses the same technique in the song "I Me Mine" and in his solo work, "Here Comes the Moon."

You can look to pretty much any bridge in a Beatles song and find something interesting that makes the song stand out.