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Old 02-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #41
macashmack
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Do you guys read the thread or not?
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:17 PM   #42
KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
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Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
But that's a lie, astral travel isn't an undisputed scientific fact. Infact, far from being considered as a fact, astral travel has never been verified by scientific study and is considered as impossible according to science. For example, imagine you are astraly travelling and taking notice of everything you are seeing along the way, how exactly are you 'seeing' anything without a solid pair of eyeballs to see with? Normaly, when we see things, the rays of light enter our eyes and hit the lens present in the eye. These rays then excite the nerves, which carry a message to the brain via nerves. The brain then understands the signal that the eye is sending and 'sees' the object that the eye was looking at.... but how can any of that happen without any of the things needed for sight to be possible, such as an eyeball, a brain and the nerves required to carry the signal?

It's like expecting your TV to be able to pick up a clear picture of an object without someone first pointing a camera at it, so in other words, the belief in the possibility of astral travel, or astral 'projection' as it's otherwise known as, is considerd by science to be an irrational belief.

yeah but like
what even is 'seeing'
if seeing is just electrical signals in the brain as a result of a stimuli, then what's the difference between seeing something irl and seeing something when dreaming? The signals you get when you're asleep are identical to those during waking life, the only difference is that you literally become the stimuli you're experiencing; you experience yourself. Everything enters before it becomes manifest, this means that at the very most, everything you see/smell/touch/experience is an aspect of the self, propagated by a stimuli, LD and AP is just experiencing Self without the influence of Maya, and Self is way more real than Maya, given that Maya is a result of Self.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
yeah but like
what even is 'seeing'
if seeing is just electrical signals in the brain as a result of a stimuli, then what's the difference between seeing something irl and seeing something when dreaming? The signals you get when you're asleep are identical to those during waking life, the only difference is that you literally become the stimuli you're experiencing; you experience yourself. Everything enters before it becomes manifest, this means that at the very most, everything you see/smell/touch/experience is an aspect of the self, propagated by a stimuli, LD and AP is just experiencing Self without the influence of Maya, and Self is way more real than Maya, given that Maya is a result of Self.


When we dream, we are just entering into a parallel universe because the one we're in shuts off.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:25 PM   #44
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yeah
like
it 'shuts off' cos we stop creating it
so other than irl being a mass hallucination, what makes it more real than a dream?
nowt
if the truest thing we have is 'cogito ergo sum' then surely fully experiencing self is way truer to yourself than a false interpretation of an 'outside' stimuli
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:27 PM   #45
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I think a better question is what makes a dream less real than this dream we call life. It's not that reality is imaginary... just that imagination is reality. When we "believe" in something, we allow it to exist in our mind. Or maybe I'm just a crackpot.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:33 PM   #46
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nowts true, owts permitted

e.g. gravity doesn't exist, instead its our interpretation of a fundamental aspect of existence
but this doesn't make gravity 'truth'
the only 'truth', if you can call it that, is Void.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #47
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #48
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it's called pseudophilosophical babble
I enjoy it
it doesn't make what I said incorrect

but how can gravity exist when niether space, time nor matter exist, and gravity is a force affecting a particle along spacetime?

Last edited by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT : 02-09-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:48 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
it's called pseudophilosophical babble
I enjoy it
it doesn't make what I said incorrect

It's called bullshit. And what you said is incorrect, not because it's pseudophilosophical babble. But because that's not how physics works.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #50
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #51
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This whole thing is mental masturbation.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #52
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Space doesn't really exist. It's nothing. We are all mostly made of empty space. And yet, here we are. What the **** is going on?

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Old 02-09-2013, 03:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
But because that's not how physics works.

How exactly, then, does it work?
if we were to use light as an apparatus of measurement, and we remove the notion of time given that it's a fact that it doesn't exist, then if 'space' is just the amount of 'time' taken for light to 'travel' from 'a' to 'b', in the 4d< light would exist in both these states simultaneously, removing the notion of a specific 'space' in spacetime

and it's already pretty common knowledge that matter doesn't actually exist and is instead the result of the collapse of the wavefunction, then given that space, time and matter don't exist, how can gravity ACTUALLY be the force of attraction of matter on other matter relative to mass when none of those concepts truly exist?

I'm not saying gravity 'doesn't exist', I'm saying our perception of it isn't and can't ever be what it truly is, on the basis that any reference we could ascribe to it is incorrect

getting real tired of your shit Sam

Last edited by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT : 02-10-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:57 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
yeah but like
what even is 'seeing'
if seeing is just electrical signals in the brain as a result of a stimuli, then what's the difference between seeing something irl and seeing something when dreaming? The signals you get when you're asleep are identical to those during waking life,

No, that's incorrect.
The signals you get when you are awake come from your eyes and tell you what is actualy in front of you, the signals you get when you are asleep and dreaming come from your brain and show you things that are not real. One is (usualy) considered as a trustable source of reality while the other is not. There's nothing 'identical' about them at all.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:13 AM   #55
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No, that's incorrect.
Where are you proposing the signals from the eye go? They follow an identical path to those during sleep, the only difference being that during sleep they aren't from an outside stimuli, as I specified.

If seeing is electric signals in the brain, then there's no difference. If I ripped your eyes out and plugged in a computer that sent the same signals to the brain telling you you're looking at a pony, are you looking at a pony? Yes, cos sight is a result of impulses int brain. Impulses that happen to be identical during sleep.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:16 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
Yes, cos sight is a result of impulses int brain. Impulses that happen to be identical during sleep.


This is evidently not true. One can produce a mental image without removing the ability to see at the same time, and thus the signals cannot be occupying the same neurons.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:17 AM   #57
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You do know "psudophilosophical babble" is a pejorative, right?
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:42 AM   #58
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"undisputed scientific fact"

lel

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OT: I'm definitely interested in trying it. To some degree it sounds pretty cool; whether it's actually an out of body experience or just a Wake Induced Lucid Dream doesn't really matter. It's definitely something that's worth trying imo.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Hart
This is evidently not true. One can produce a mental image without removing the ability to see at the same time, and thus the signals cannot be occupying the same neurons.

Imagination is produced in the occipital cortex, super vividly imagining something while trying to simultaneously view an elaborate pattern in all of its detail will result in either lacking in quality. Similarly, imagining running, for example, uses your motor cortex in the same way that actually running does, just in less intensity. If you were able to imagine with enough intensity, similar to the intensity of impulses as a result of stimuli from irl, you'd be seeing/smelling/feeling it just in the same way as irl. And that's what dreaming is. Movement in dreams also uses the same neurons, the only reason we don't move irl is because the path of neurons traveling down your spine to your muscles are blocked, when this doesn't happen is why sleep walking occurs.

My point is that if seeing is just information processed by the visual cortex, same with smell taste touch and hearing with their respective brainy counterparts, then there's literally no difference between touching/smelling/seeing something in a dream and doing the same irl. Other than irl provides an 'external' stimuli.

Everything is done subconsciously when awake, people aren't trained to allocate enough mental RAM towards imagination to be able to have a fully vivid hallucination so it's a lot harder to do, but it doesn't mean it's any different.

Last edited by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT : 02-10-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:51 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
No, that's incorrect.
Where are you proposing the signals from the eye go? They follow an identical path to those during sleep, the only difference being that during sleep they aren't from an outside stimuli, as I specified.

No, 'sight' works via a signal from an eye which follows the optic nerve to the brain while a 'dream' originates within the brain itself and doesn't involve the optic nerve.

There is however evidence that the visual cortex, the part of your brain in the back of your head is activated by imagined pictures in the same way it would be for actual pictures, but the mechanics of the activation are definately different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLLSWiTCH-KnoT
If seeing is electric signals in the brain, then there's no difference. If I ripped your eyes out and plugged in a computer that sent the same signals to the brain telling you you're looking at a pony, are you looking at a pony? Yes, cos sight is a result of impulses int brain. Impulses that happen to be identical during sleep.

No, if you 'sent' an image of a pony to my brain, then I'd be looking at an 'image' of a pony rather than an 'actual' pony. Unless of course the image you were sending was from a live feed from a camera that was indeed pointed at a real pony, in which case you would have effectively replaced my eyes with cybotic replacements.
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