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Old 02-09-2013, 12:02 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by nicksword87
Mosquito definitely. gives you malaria and hiv in some case.

No, it's impossible to get HIV from a mosquito. It would need to somehow put HIV+ blood back into your system, which it wouldn't do cos it's a one way system, plus it actually digests the HIV virus when it gets the blood.

I'm gunna go with tiger sharks
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:12 PM   #82
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Mosquitoes, not even a contest, they have indirectly killed like half of the humans that ever lived (malaria).

Malaria is a parasite, therefore making IT the one who killed those people. Mosquitoes don't do shit other than carry it around.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:46 PM   #83
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Malaria is a parasite, therefore making IT the one who killed those people. Mosquitoes don't do shit other than carry it around.

That's like saying that a Box Jellyfish isn't the most dangerous marine animal in the world because it's the neurotoxins that kill people and not the Jellyfish itself. Or that a tiger shark isn't a highly dangerous animal because it's the shark's teeth and not the shark itself.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:49 PM   #84
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That's like saying that a Box Jellyfish isn't dangerous because it's the neurotoxins that kill people and not the Jellyfish itself.

Or that humans aren't dangerous because it's the atom bomb that's making the explosion or the bullet that's blowing the brains out.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:55 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by macashmack
Or that humans aren't dangerous because it's the atom bomb that's making the explosion or the bullet that's blowing the brains out.

This guy gets it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:55 PM   #86
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
That's like saying that a Box Jellyfish isn't the most dangerous marine animal in the world because it's the neurotoxins that kill people and not the Jellyfish itself. Or that a tiger shark isn't a highly dangerous animal because it's the shark's teeth and not the shark itself.

Well that's not really the same at all; a jellyfish's neurotoxin is part of the jellyfish and the shark's teeth are part of them too.

Take one of these animals on its own, it's still very dangerous. If a mosquito didn't carry another organism, it wouldn't be dangerous at all. The dangerous part of what mosquitos do is pretty much incidental to what they actually do; the danger of what sharks and jellyfish do are essential to what they do.


It's like saying a horse is dangerous if someone is riding it and shoots someone.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #88
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Well that's not really the same at all; a jellyfish's neurotoxin is part of the jellyfish and the shark's teeth are part of them too.

Take one of these animals on its own, it's still very dangerous. If a mosquito didn't carry another organism, it wouldn't be dangerous at all. The dangerous part of what mosquitos do is pretty much incidental to what they actually do; the danger of what sharks and jellyfish do are essential to what they do.


It's like saying a horse is dangerous if someone is riding it and shoots someone.

The fact of the matter is that Mosquito's are very common carriers of Malaria in the natural world. It's part of the Mosquito's way of life to be a carrier of the disease. The fact that it's incidental or not is irrelevant. You could say the same about how a Box Jellyfish incidentally carries one of the most powerful venoms in the natural world. It only has to be powerful enough to kill the prey it feeds on, but no, it just happens to be so powerful that it can kill a human in a couple of minutes.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
Well that's not really the same at all; a jellyfish's neurotoxin is part of the jellyfish and the shark's teeth are part of them too.

Take one of these animals on its own, it's still very dangerous. If a mosquito didn't carry another organism, it wouldn't be dangerous at all. The dangerous part of what mosquitos do is pretty much incidental to what they actually do; the danger of what sharks and jellyfish do are essential to what they do.


It's like saying a horse is dangerous if someone is riding it and shoots someone.

i can understand you're point, but do you believe that humans aren't dangerous because we are most effective when we pick up tools and use them? Is the tool responsible for the murder?
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
The fact of the matter is that Mosquito's are very common carriers of Malaria in the natural world. It's part of the Mosquito's way of life to be a carrier of the disease. The fact that it's incidental or not is irrelevant. You could say the same about how a Box Jellyfish incidentally carries one of the most powerful venoms in the natural world. It only has to be powerful enough to kill the prey it feeds on, but no, it just happens to be so powerful that it can kill a human in a couple of minutes.

No, it's not the same at all. A parasite is an independent living organism. Neurotoxic venom, or teeth are not. A malaria parasite is a creature. Those other things are not. Your comparison makes no sense.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by naedauuf
No, it's not the same at all. A parasite is an independent living organism. Neurotoxic venom, or teeth are not. A malaria parasite is a creature. Those other things are not. Your comparison makes no sense.

I never said that teeth or venom are independent entities, that's what your logic seems to imply, not mine.

I understand where you are coming from, but it's the mosquitoes that make Malaria such a prevalent killer.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:18 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by macashmack
i can understand you're point, but do you believe that humans aren't dangerous because we are most effective when we pick up tools and use them? Is the tool responsible for the murder?

Aye I can see how that's a more difficult case, but humans make these tools themselves and use them intentionally. If a human shoots someone, it's part of their action; if a mosquito accidentally gives someone malaria, their action (so to speak, it's a bit odd to talk of intentionality of action for mosquitoes anyway) wasn't trying to give someone malaria. They bite people, that's what they do; that they give malaria is due to an external factor that really isn't really part of them in any sense.

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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
The fact of the matter is that Mosquito's are very common carriers of Malaria in the natural world. It's part of the Mosquito's way of life to be a carrier of the disease. The fact that it's incidental or not is irrelevant. You could say the same about how a Box Jellyfish incidentally carries one of the most powerful venoms in the natural world. It only has to be powerful enough to kill the prey it feeds on, but no, it just happens to be so powerful that it can kill a human in a couple of minutes.

That's still not the same, the venom is part of what a Box Jellyfish is. It is something they have to kill other animals.
The diseases mosquitoes carry aren't part of them nor any essential part of what they do. If mosquitoes lived in a country where no other animals had malaria or HIV or whatever, they wouldn't kill anyone. Put a shark or a Box jellyfish anywhere and they will kill.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #93
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It's true, they are a HUGE contributing factor, but it isn't the mosquitoes themselves that do anything, it's the malaria creature.

So basically what I'm saying is that Malaria is the most dangerous with a lot of help from mosquitoes.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by MadClownDisease
That's still not the same, the venom is part of what a Box Jellyfish is. It is something they have to kill other animals.
The diseases mosquitoes carry aren't part of them nor any essential part of what they do. If mosquitoes lived in a country where no other animals had malaria or HIV or whatever, they wouldn't kill anyone. Put a shark or a Box jellyfish anywhere and they will kill.

So because it's a secondary action, it somehow makes the animal less dangerous? How does that make sense?
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Originally Posted by naedauuf
It's true, they are a HUGE contributing factor, but it isn't the mosquitoes themselves that do anything, it's the malaria creature.

So basically what I'm saying is that Malaria is the most dangerous with a lot of help from mosquitoes.

And teeth are supposedly the most dangerous entities because of the shark that the teeth are attached to, help it along.

Can you understand how the logic is a bit silly?

Also, this logic doesn't work for things like viruses, because viruses are technically not living creatures.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
So because it's a secondary action, it somehow makes the animal less dangerous? How does that make sense?

I can see why you'd want to say that mosquitoes are dangerous in that them existing causing risks that would not be there if they didn't exist (or say, if all mosquitoes disappeared now there would be less deaths), but I still don't think it's really accurate to call them dangerous. They're near harmless, they just happen to accidentally carry another organism that kills people.

It's similar to saying rats are extremely dangerous animals because the black death killed half the population of Europe. It probably wouldn't have happened if not for rats, but rats aren't actually dangerous themselves.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:30 PM   #96
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I can see why you'd want to say that mosquitoes are dangerous in that them existing causing risks that would not be there if they didn't exist (or say, if all mosquitoes disappeared now there would be less deaths), but I still don't think it's really accurate to call them dangerous. They're near harmless, they just happen to accidentally carry another organism that kills people.

It's similar to saying rats are extremely dangerous animals because the black death killed half the population of Europe. It probably wouldn't have happened if not for rats, but rats aren't actually dangerous themselves.

And at the same time, the Black Death wouldn't be dangerous if it didn't have a medium to carry itself. A disease is harmless if it doesn't have a means of infecting a host. That's the crux of my position.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
So because it's a secondary action, it somehow makes the animal less dangerous? How does that make sense?

And teeth are supposedly the most dangerous entities because of the shark that the teeth are attached to, help it along.

Can you understand how the logic is a bit silly?

Also, this logic doesn't work for things like viruses, because viruses are technically not living creatures.

I agree, bacteria and viruses don't count, but a parasite is essentially an insect that is very small. Bacteria and viruses are single celled organisms. A parasite is a complex multicellular organism. Totally different things. A parasite could be compared to a bullet ant, or a spider in being it's own creature that kill with it's own made devices. A tooth doesn't have a nervous system, neurotoxin is a chemical. They aren't complex living organisms. They're part of something bigger. Just like a parasite has organs inside, a shark has teeth in it's mouth.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:39 PM   #98
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I agree, bacteria and viruses don't count, but a parasite is essentially an insect that is very small. Bacteria and viruses are single celled organisms. A parasite is a complex multicellular organism. Totally different things. A parasite could be compared to a bullet ant, or a spider in being it's own creature that kill with it's own made devices. A tooth doesn't have a nervous system, neurotoxin is a chemical. They aren't complex living organisms. They're part of something bigger. Just like a parasite has organs inside, a shark has teeth in it's mouth.

But you also need to look at the bigger picture. A weapon is harmless if there is no way to wield it. A parasite, bacteria or virus cannot infect a host if it has no means of infecting it. The mosquito is the most dangerous creature in the animal kingdom because it has the capacity to wield such a dangerous weapon with such effectiveness.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #99
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I could argue that Box Jellyfish aren't dangerous without their transportation methods, then. With no water, how dangerous are they? Without oxygen how dangerous are humans? It's the way it survived and adapted. To infect as many hosts as possible. It did this because it worked. It's means of infection are irrelevant. Once it's in your body it's the parasite you are scared of, not the mosquito flying away with your blood.

EDIT: Also, as was said, the mosquitoes aren't intentionally using the malaria parasites as weapons. They just do their thing, they have no say in the matter, really. If I shot a guy, that means I chose to shoot him. Mosquitoes don't consciously think "I'm going to infect that person right there".
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #100
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I could argue that Box Jellyfish aren't dangerous without their transportation methods, then. With no water, how dangerous are they? Without oxygen how dangerous are humans? It's the way it survived and adapted.

You're basically agreeing with my position in this paragraph. How dangerous is Malaria if it has no means of infecting anything?
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To infect as many hosts as possible. It did this because it worked. It's means of infection are irrelevant. Once it's in your body it's the parasite you are scared of, not the mosquito flying away with your blood.

The mosquito is what made you scared of the disease in the first place. A nuclear bomb isn't dangerous if nobody knows how to detonate it. That's what the mosquito does. It's not the size of your weapon, but how you use it that counts.
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EDIT: Also, as was said, the mosquitoes aren't intentionally using the malaria parasites as weapons. They just do their thing, they have no say in the matter, really. If I shot a guy, that means I chose to shoot him. Mosquitoes don't consciously think "I'm going to infect that person right there".

The fact that it isn't intentional doesn't make it any less of a killer.
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