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Old 02-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #61
rockingamer2
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
Elaborate?

The US and Ancient Rome do have similarities, much of it coming from the fact that they are both "top dog" in a way, but they exist in completely different contexts. Saying that the America will fall "under it's own greatness" (what ever the hell that means) like Rome did is a gross oversimplification of history.

The whole "history repeats itself" idea irks me as well. Sure, things sort of go in cycles, but there are new things happening all the time. When in world history has one of two great "empires" suddenly dissolve itself rather peacefully? When in world history did we have the means to communicate almost instantly around the globe?
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:25 PM   #62
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The USA and Rome are different, because the USA is not build on the militairy overthrow of an entire continent. What region do you think wants to seperate themselves from the USA? Alaska?
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #63
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Uhh long wall of text for a simple answer. YES. OF COURSE. When? I have no idea, but nothing lasts forever.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
It.. kind of is.

Oh yeah I'm sorry, I didn't see it was you whom I was talking to.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
The USA and Rome are different, because the USA is not build on the militairy overthrow of an entire continent. What region do you think wants to seperate themselves from the USA? Alaska?


Well it is, it's just that the Native Americans are only a small minority in America now.

Edit:
Yea, what the other guy said.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:29 PM   #66
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Well it is, it's just that the Native Americans are only a small minority in America now.

Edit:
Yea, what the other guy said.

Ok, but that's quite different from the Roman Empire who were a minority in their own empire.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:33 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
So the subjugation of the Native Americans doesn't count as the overthrow of a continent because they were massacred almost to extinction?

By the Europoors.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
So the subjugation of the Native Americans doesn't count as the overthrow of a continent because they were massacred almost to extinction?

It's my phrasing of the thing. I meant that Rome's power was entirely dependent on their ability to use their military might to keep the overthrown factions under their reign. As the Romans didn't have the numbers any more to hold that kind of area + some other problems, their empire collapsed and all races broke free.

The USA does not need to be scared on the indians, and therefore has less chance of collapsing under its own policies. If it does collapse it will be because of a different reason.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
East/West Rome

But it wasn't exactly by choice and there were plenty of external pressures. And I don't think they were as ready to kill each other as the US and USSR were.

--

Rome didn't "overthrow" a continent. They conquered lands around the Mediterranean Sea, a fact that was a very important factor of their success. Sea travel was faster than land travel, and as the started to expand farther and farther away from water, it became harder to keep the peace and establish Roman authority in those regions.

Further, the US doesn't need to keep expanding to prosper to survive like Rome did.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by rockingamer2
But it wasn't exactly by choice and there were plenty of external pressures. And I don't think they were as ready to kill each other as the US and USSR were.

--

Rome didn't "overthrow" a continent. They conquered lands around the Mediterranean Sea, a fact that was a very important factor of their success. Sea travel was faster than land travel, and as the started to expand farther and farther away from water, it became harder to keep the peace and establish Roman authority in those regions.

Further, the US doesn't need to keep expanding to prosper to survive like Rome did.

The conquered till the North of the Netherlands, parts of Britain and Germany.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
The conquered till the North of the Netherlands, parts of Britain and Germany.

And that's around the time they stopped expanding so much into the rest of Europe. It was also harder to do since the people living in much of un-Romanized Europe were nomadic. Most of the people Rome conquered were already living a pretty sedentary lifestyle, so being conquered by Rome wasn't a big upset to them.

Quote:
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Then why are you the world's police if not to maintain overseas assets?

The way Rome needed to expand was partly because of their military. They needed the army in order to conquer land. They also needed land because they gave each retiree land and money on conquered land, an incentive for enlistment. This cycle starts to break down when expansion slows.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:59 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rockingamer2
Saying that the America will fall "under it's own greatness" (what ever the hell that means) like Rome did is a gross oversimplification of history.
Basically because Romans destroyed Rome because they let their economy fall apart and did nothing about it until it was too late.

I dunno. I remember that movie "Lions for Lambs" going into depth about this. It made sense when I watched it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:39 PM   #73
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too fat, can't see dick. fall over trying
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:51 PM   #74
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The states will eventually secede in the long run. States are now defying federal laws so that they can enforce their own.

I feel like the US will eventually become similar to the EU. Each state will have its own constitution and will help other states in their time of need without an official ruling of the federal government.

Or it could all end up like the Judge Dredd universe, where cities are now combined to create mega cities divided by district and territory lines throughout the globe.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #75
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America police the world, now.
It is America who has drones flying over foreign countries to bomb threats to America.
That's power.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:34 PM   #76
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Probably.

However it's not going to be a 'China invades America/becomes more powerful and runs the world' scenario. The UK for example no longer has an empire and is no longer a superpower but it's still a strong power and influence. That's how I see America in the future. With that said I don't think it's a bad thing if there are multiple superpowers (unless it erupts into global conflict).
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:41 PM   #77
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Doesn't answer the question, but it's a damn good song.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:00 AM   #78
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Depends what you mean by fall.

Militarily, that's never happening, the US spends 43% of the world military budge, it's decades ahead of the world in terms of military technology.

Economically, although seems possible, is also unlikely. The US is still the largest economic powerhouse of the world, and the thing about China taking over economically is totally over hyped. Most of China's population is in poverty and hungry, and if the US and China were to embargo each other, the US would come out on top because it doesn't need China as much as China needs the US. US businesses in China will just pull out and come back to the US. And China will never go to war with the US, because then all the debt that is owed to China will go *poof*.

In the end, the US will never completely cease to exist, the worst that will happen is that it will become like the UK, no longer as powerful as it used to be, but still a strong global influence economically and militarily.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:06 AM   #79
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to everyone saying the US isnt an empire, nigga, we on mars.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:13 AM   #80
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i dunno but the US is st upid anyways so i shay we should just get rid of it
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