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View Poll Results: Are video games an artform?
Yes 96 50.79%
No 10 5.29%
Not inherently, but some games could be considered as such. 75 39.68%
Mommy doesn't let me rot my brain 8 4.23%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:05 AM   #61
crazysam23_Atax
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Originally Posted by goest
That's what I'm saying though. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game designer who doesn't go into his work without the intention of creating art.

Well, I could agree with that to a point. But even so, as I said about the early Mario games, I wouldn't consider those art.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:06 AM   #62
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I would. Primitive art, perhaps, but art nonetheless.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:08 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Just because someone wants it to be viewed as art, that doesn't mean it is.

It has to be created with the intent, not afterwards have it tagged on that "the game designer wants their product viewed as art".


Besides, I think you'd find a lot of game designers don't really care about graphics as much as things like gameplay.

The author is dead; you will never know what his intentions were; stop trying to use intent to make the idea of 'art' exclusive
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Brick23
The author is dead; you will never know what his intentions were; stop trying to use intent to make the idea of 'art' exclusive

Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 02-25-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:16 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsmack_IV
They incorporate elements of art but on't make it the main focus. Similarily, a D&D board game uses artsy figurines and storylines but is first and foremost a game.

Many games nowadays (such as Metal Gear Solid) contain more cut scenes than gameplay though.
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Originally Posted by goest
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a video game designer who didn't want their product to be viewed as art.

Ironically, Hideo Kojima (MGS) does not believe video games can ever be art.
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Originally Posted by Reisgar42
Video games are a combination of visual art, narrative, and music. Video games themselves are not inherently art, but they are a collection of art put together in a (hopefully) unified way that can be interpreted as an artistic statement.

What about film?
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Originally Posted by jjfeu662
Video games are created digitally and are a form of science.

Is a symphonic orchestral piece of music composed on an electronic music program not art, then?

Is graphic design not art?
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:17 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:18 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Stop trying to broaden it out to where everything is "art", including the sandwich I made with the intention of eating it.


what if i just love sandwiches, and you happened to make an amazing one without being able to fully appreciate it? art is a personal thing, so anything could be art to varying degrees, to anyone, and it makes little sense to label things as "art" or "not art."

like eGraham said, he is able to find source code artistic. i will always see it as something too utilitarian to be regarded as artistic on the level of my favorite music, but i won't deny that it can be beautiful in some sort of vaguely artistic way.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:20 AM   #68
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Game mechanics at their very core stand in the way of artistic expression. Instead of being expressive in of themselves, they compel the participant to create an experience. At most they are potentials for artistic expression; more akin to a paintbrush and canvas than the actual painting.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:20 AM   #69
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I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:23 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Godsmack_IV
Game mechanics at their very core stand in the way of artistic expression. Instead of being expressive in of themselves, they compel the participant to create an experience. At most they are potentials for artistic expression; more akin to a paintbrush and canvas than the actual painting.


I disagree with this. They've created art that you then become a part of. Especially in open-world games, where they've built a world out of nothing but imagination and now give you the means to create your own experience with said art. It's like one big installation piece.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:26 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vIsIbleNoIsE
what if i just love sandwiches, and you happened to make an amazing one without being able to fully appreciate it?

Then if I made you a sandwich with the intent that it be art (albeit "consumable art"), then it is art.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:26 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Jackintehbox
I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.


I know this has already been said, but it really depends on what you define as art. Some games certainly are created with the intent to be appreciated for themselves and not for the money they make. Others are there to sell. While it doesn't rule it out as art if the artist wants to make money off his art, if the intent is money then I see that as where it ceases to be art. Some games definitely meet that criteria while others seek to do something new, spark emotions within the player, or change the way games are made. Also the fact that your title says UG Newbie and you joined in 2007 is amusing.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:27 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Many games nowadays (such as Metal Gear Solid) contain more cut scenes than gameplay though.


Don't remind me.

MGS4 was a great game but horrible movie.

Anyways, cutscenes are not inherent to video games like game mechanics are. You can take the cutscenes out of the game and still have a video game but if you were to take the game mechanics out then you would just have a movie.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:29 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Jackintehbox
I never got the idea that some games are more art than other games. Either they're all art, or none of them are. Being "artsy" has nothing to do with being or not being art, if that makes any sense.

Also this. No one has the authority to decide what pieces of a particular medium are art and which are not. A medium either is art, or it is not art.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:30 AM   #75
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Don't remind me.

MGS4 was a great game but horrible movie.

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:31 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Gibson_SG_uzr55
What about film?


I don't often see film used as a component of video games, so I didn't include it. You could make an argument for cutscenes but I don't really think they're different enough from the rest of the animation used during gameplay to be called something different.

Or, if you're asking if I see film as a composite as well, I do. Films themselves are not inherently art but the framework does lend itself to similar potential.

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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
See #49 for my opinion on music and art as intent. Also, that statement is NOT making a valid comparison, and you know it.


How isn't it? I'd argue that a developer that doesn't put in the effort to optimize a program is comparable to a musician who doesn't put in the effort to make sure his instrument is tuned. Using graphics that are simplified and less taxing on a system is a very simple way to optimize, and it can be used as an artistic element.

You seem to be saying that if the motivation behind a decision isn't entirely based in art, then the entire product cannot be art, and that is a ridiculous standpoint.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:32 AM   #77
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:34 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Then if I made you a sandwich with the intent that it be art (albeit "consumable art"), then it is art.


did the composer of the tunes for the Mario games (which you said you don't regard as art) make art? he wasn't composing for the sake of art (again, by your standards only). if you don't agree that the Mario music is art in itself, then we fundamentally disagree beyond hope so it's all good.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:36 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Reisgar42
You seem to be saying that if the motivation behind a decision isn't entirely based in art, then the entire product cannot be art, and that is a ridiculous standpoint.

And why is that a ridiculous standpoint? It's just as valid as any other theory of art.


It doesn't have to be entirely based in art, btw. It just has to have that as one of the main considerations. I would argue that, more often than not, gameplay is the main consideration and art is a secondary consideration.

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Originally Posted by vIsIbleNoIsE
did the composer of the tunes for the Mario games (which you said you don't regard as art) make art? he wasn't composing for the sake of art (again, by your standards only).

Actually, I never said SOLELY for the sake of art. (You guys seem to think that I think the one and only consideration has to be whether it was intended to be art. As I said to Resigar, it has to be one of the main considerations.) But, as I said in post #49., music always has an intent to be art, even if it's a very simple style of music like the music of the Mario games.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:39 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
It doesn't have to be entirely based in art, btw. It just has to have that as one of the main considerations. I would argue that, more often than not, gameplay is the main consideration and art is a secondary consideration.


What about times when the gameplay is intended to constitute art? What about when the art influences gameplay?

I think what you're presenting is a bit of a false dichotomy imo.
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