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Old 03-06-2013, 11:27 AM   #21
Jehannum
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Compositional style >> technique for me. They can be the most basic player who ever lived but if the note choices are right I'll listen. I don't listen to much new stuff. Much of what I've heard in recent metal doesn't inspire me despite the advances made in guitar playing and drumming since the 80s when I got into that genre. There's something missing. I don't know what it is, but it isn't technical ability.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jehannum
Compositional style >> technique for me. They can be the most basic player who ever lived but if the note choices are right I'll listen. I don't listen to much new stuff. Much of what I've heard in recent metal doesn't inspire me despite the advances made in guitar playing and drumming since the 80s when I got into that genre. There's something missing. I don't know what it is, but it isn't technical ability.

I agree. I'm also fan of old stuff (though I like some new stuff too).

But I think new music should really be new to be interesting. Some new bands just play the same stuff people have been playing since the 90s. Music hasn't changed a lot and they repeat the same cliches. I'm talking about particular subgenres. For example listen to Iron Maiden's new albums and listen to their old albums. They repeat the same cliches, they can't come up with anything new that fits the same style. The songs are OK but it just doesn't have the same feel as their older albums when the genre was new. I think "best" contemporary music is something else than classic metal for example. Classic metal has pretty much been composed. Of course people can write new classic metal songs but they just don't feel the same as the old stuff when the metal cliches weren't invented yet.

So if people write similar stuff than they wrote in the 70s or 80s, no wonder that it doesn't sound that interesting. I rather listen to old records if I want to listen to an old style of music (like NWOBHM).
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:39 PM   #23
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^yeah but van halen looks alot cooler


i agree with your whole post though



IMO, EVH sounds alot better too.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #24
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thats because chris broderick is shit.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
I agree. I'm also fan of old stuff (though I like some new stuff too).

But I think new music should really be new to be interesting. Some new bands just play the same stuff people have been playing since the 90s. Music hasn't changed a lot and they repeat the same cliches. I'm talking about particular subgenres. For example listen to Iron Maiden's new albums and listen to their old albums. They repeat the same cliches, they can't come up with anything new that fits the same style. The songs are OK but it just doesn't have the same feel as their older albums when the genre was new. I think "best" contemporary music is something else than classic metal for example. Classic metal has pretty much been composed. Of course people can write new classic metal songs but they just don't feel the same as the old stuff when the metal cliches weren't invented yet.

So if people write similar stuff than they wrote in the 70s or 80s, no wonder that it doesn't sound that interesting. I rather listen to old records if I want to listen to an old style of music (like NWOBHM).


I'm sorry, but IM is a bad example. As good as Harris is, he doesn't seem to be capable of writing anything outside the key of E.

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thats because chris broderick is the shit.


fixed
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
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That Chris broderick shit sounded like sloppy crap
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:56 PM   #27
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:54 AM   #28
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I would also like to point out Tosin Abasi:
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:28 AM   #29
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^ its a matter of personal opinion really. Tosin vs Robert Fripp. I think one of them will make the other cry... it depends on you who you think it will be.

*pls note that I did not use Alex Lifeson. Or Zappa. Tosin is good, don't get me wrong. But its way too technical and not enough music - MO of course. But they all have their good qualities and shitty drawbacks. When you listen to AAL you go HFS!!!! You listen to Fripp in whichever incarnation and you go "Nice, easy enough"... until you try it. Then they're on equal footing again. Fml

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Old 03-07-2013, 04:49 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Archer250
I'm sorry, but IM is a bad example. As good as Harris is, he doesn't seem to be capable of writing anything outside the key of E.



fixed

ya i sure do love his benign, melody-less ****ing garbage slop two handed tapping, and his really rigid poorly executed "classical" performances. Get real.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:02 AM   #31
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...what were you saying about guitarists in the 70s?



Playing starts about a minute in.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:13 AM   #32
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I agree that this thread is useless as every post is probably going to be biased towards the poster's favourite guitarist/band, but I like putting my opinion out there anyways.

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Originally Posted by evolucian
^ its a matter of personal opinion really. Tosin vs Robert Fripp. I think one of them will make the other cry... it depends on you who you think it will be.

*pls note that I did not use Alex Lifeson. Or Zappa. Tosin is good, don't get me wrong. But its way too technical and not enough music - MO of course. But they all have their good qualities and shitty drawbacks. When you listen to AAL you go HFS!!!! You listen to Fripp in whichever incarnation and you go "Nice, easy enough"... until you try it. Then they're on equal footing again. Fml


Evolucian, post a good song that showcases Robert Fripp. I know he plays NST, but thats all I know. I love Tosin Abasi, and Guthrie Govan because they can change styles seamlessly in a song, or even mix them. Tosin Abasi for example studied jazz at the Atlanta Institute of Sound (iirc, called something like that). AAL is very heavy music with a down tuned 8 string guitar, but it is also very jazz influenced. Abasi could be fingerpicking a melody, while also thumping out a moving bassline, like Joe Pass for example (who is another amazing guitarist by himself).
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by AWACS
I agree that this thread is useless as every post is probably going to be biased towards the poster's favourite guitarist/band, but I like putting my opinion out there anyways.



Evolucian, post a good song that showcases Robert Fripp. I know he plays NST, but thats all I know. I love Tosin Abasi, and Guthrie Govan because they can change styles seamlessly in a song, or even mix them. Tosin Abasi for example studied jazz at the Atlanta Institute of Sound (iirc, called something like that). AAL is very heavy music with a down tuned 8 string guitar, but it is also very jazz influenced. Abasi could be fingerpicking a melody, while also thumping out a moving bassline, like Joe Pass for example (who is another amazing guitarist by himself).


Remember, repost: I think one of them will make the other cry... it depends on you who you think it will be.
The other part is, do some homework. If you don't know much about him, youtube is your friend, as is google. He's an old man and he is not slow either. He also composes supremely hectic shit, very very inventive and avante garde to most. Above all, just your not so average english gentleman. Prog champion. So do your music education a favour and have at it. You can thank me later

*edit* very much a chameleon too

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Old 03-07-2013, 05:50 AM   #34
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I asked for an example. I gave you a video of Abasi; I would like a video/song by/with Fripp that you think exemplifies him well. I feel like you're coming across a little bit cocky as well, talking about Fripp, just saying.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:55 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
ya i sure do love his benign, melody-less ****ing garbage slop two handed tapping, and his really rigid poorly executed "classical" performances. Get real.


Yes, because everybody's perfect. Right?


Oh and to all the "it's too technical, it's not music" BS; it's because of mindsets like that that ended up with crap like this :
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:01 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AWACS
I asked for an example. I gave you a video of Abasi; I would like a video/song by/with Fripp that you think exemplifies him well. I feel like you're coming across a little bit cocky as well, talking about Fripp, just saying.

Lol, you never gave me a video, you gave the thread a video... one I've already seen and was kinda meh for me anyway. I know how Abasi plays and would love to see AAL live, but country permitting, not gonna happen. The truth is, you cannot just pick one (and this goes for Abasi as well). If Vai and Satch decided to have him on board for a G3 spectacle - then he can't be that shit... right?

So seriously, go find out about him. To just know about a tuning is not going to help you at all - you have to dig deeper. And its up to you... I informed you about it - if you are truly interested to discover the roots of your favourite genre, then you will put in the effort. If you choose not to, that is your choice to make.

Sidenote - the youtube vid "solos" is about effective as Zappa's "solos" album was... null and void. It didn't capture the true magic no matter how impressive or let down. So skip it.

If its too much of a minefield for you, then here's a hint: King Crimson

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Old 03-07-2013, 06:10 AM   #37
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The thing just is that today's guitarists are technically much better. In the 70s there were good guitarists but today there are more of them. There are lots of pretty unknown guitarists in Youtube that can play pretty well. That doesn't mean they are better guitarists but they are technically more advanced. I'm sure a (technically) good guitarist in the 70s would still be good guitarist but there are those guys that can do even more with their guitar. Though I don't really care about that kind of technique showing off. If it doesn't sound good I don't care how difficult it's to play.

My point is: In the 70s guitarists with excellent technique were more rare. I know there were technical players back then but you can't deny the fact that today there are more of them and some of them have much better technique. I think that has to do with the Internet and better education in music. Everything has come easier.

And I know people like Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix have good enough technique and they were also very innovative guitarists. They can play the music they want to play (though you can hear that they play a bit sloppily sometimes). And IMO that's enough. If you'll never play stuff like Tosin Abasi, you don't need to have as good technique as him. You need to have as good technique as you need for the songs you want to play. So guitarists in the 70s weren't by no means bad but today there simply are more technical players. And again, it really doesn't matter to me because I don't care about technically challenging music if it doesn't sound interesting.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:51 AM   #38
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I think technically guitarists have come on leaps and bound in the last decade or so, these days every man and his dog can play crazy fast licks that they've memorized note for note. I put this down to the resources we have available these days. With online instructional material, basically anyone can learn from the greats.

Also, with the internet, more or less anyone can get there music out there to an international audience. How does this affect listeners? Well I think these days you have to wade through a lot of crap to find real musical talent, and young players are more focused on regurgitated licks and learning other peoples solos note for note than developing their own improvising.

Anyone involved in my online lessons will know that I teach primarily improvisation based concepts, which to me is the most important aspect of players that I personally like.

Interesting debate!
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #39
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I just want to hear some good metal riffs, technical or not. Something that makes my head move or my spine tingle. If I go to my CD collection from the mid 80s that's not a problem; if I turn on the radio it is.

Everything sounds much clearer and sharper (and yes, better played) now than it used to - just like TV programmes look much better in high definition - but the content isn't there. There's literally nothing I really like in today's metal scene. That's a bit depressing. I listen to Kerrang to and from work and all I get is American frat boy vocal harmonies and guitar tones polished to within a millimetre of their life.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:44 AM   #40
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There's literally nothing I really like in today's metal scene... I listen to Kerrang to and from work


I think we may have found the real issue here.
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