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Old 03-08-2013, 06:56 AM   #61
evolucian
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*places a reminder to check back in 45 years to update this thread....*
Fripp - contributed to over 700 official releases.
Abasi - to be determined after 45 years

Over 700? Yeah, frikkin terrible musician, pfffft
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:04 AM   #62
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Past has more skill, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan:



Just listen to that technicall Jesus-ing he's doing. Also got some Robert Plant chops in his voice box. Nobody done play with feels no more. Shame...
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:21 AM   #63
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People also need to remember that songwriting skills =/= technical skills. People today might not write as memorable songs as in the past but they have better technical skills. And I think this thread was about guitar skills, not musical skills. Though IMO musical skills are much more important. As I said earlier, people in the 70s were good enough. But today guitarists just simply are better. It doesn't mean guitarists in the 70s sucked. You can be good even though there are lots of better guitarists than you.

And IMO you are a good guitarist if you can play what you need to play. If you only write simple guitar+vocals four chord songs, you are good enough guitarist if you can play those chords cleanly and fluently and sing at the same time, that's all you need to do to play your music. You don't need to have the skills of John Petrucci to do that. And IMO that kind of guitarist is good at what he does.

With not so good technique and good musical skills you can still play beautiful music. It might not be that fast but if you are good enough, you can make the most simple things sound good by phrasing and playing the right things at the right time. If you only have good technique and not that great musical skills, your playing will sound like a speed exercise, not that enjoyable to listen to. Of course best guitarists have both good technical and musical skills.

Though musical skills are more subjective. They are about opinions. Some guys may prefer very fast and technical playing that to me sounds like bees. Technical skills are much more objective (how fast, cleanly and accurately you can play). You can tell if somebody has bad or good technique.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:42 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
People also need to remember that songwriting skills =/= technical skills. People today might not write as memorable songs as in the past but they have better technical skills. And I think this thread was about guitar skills, not musical skills. Though IMO musical skills are much more important. As I said earlier, people in the 70s were good enough. But today guitarists just simply are better. It doesn't mean guitarists in the 70s sucked. You can be good even though there are lots of better guitarists than you.

And IMO you are a good guitarist if you can play what you need to play. If you only write simple guitar+vocals four chord songs, you are good enough guitarist if you can play those chords cleanly and fluently and sing at the same time, that's all you need to do to play your music. You don't need to have the skills of John Petrucci to do that. And IMO that kind of guitarist is good at what he does.

With not so good technique and good musical skills you can still play beautiful music. It might not be that fast but if you are good enough, you can make the most simple things sound good by phrasing and playing the right things at the right time. If you only have good technique and not that great musical skills, your playing will sound like a speed exercise, not that enjoyable to listen to. Of course best guitarists have both good technical and musical skills.

Though musical skills are more subjective. They are about opinions. Some guys may prefer very fast and technical playing that to me sounds like bees. Technical skills are much more objective (how fast, cleanly and accurately you can play). You can tell if somebody has bad or good technique.


People often make the mistake of confusing speed & spectacle with "technical skills".

IMO it's best not to look at it as a competition. People that do often undervalue many aspects of music that make it enjoyable.

You're better off if you appreciate rather than judge IMO.

Last edited by GuitarMunky : 03-08-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:51 PM   #65
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Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.

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Old 03-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #66
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ughhhh
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:41 PM   #67
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i have a papa roach bumper sticker on my car hahhahahahahaha
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #68
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:09 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocknrolla35
Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.


You've picked some of the most different guitarists and you chose to listen to some of the shittiest modern guitarists. Your argument is invalid.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:01 AM   #70
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You have to match genre for genre...

On a side note - you included MAB in your list. You deserve to be shot
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocknrolla35
Mostly,the oldschool guys outdo the new generation(bands like Papa Roach and Black Veil Brides). But some of the new generations guys,even if not so technical,can put up a competition(if you don't judge just by the amont of skill). For example: Crashdiet,SOAD(they are not very technical altogether,but they ARE GOOD musicians),Lordi.

But still - the oldschool generation is the best.
Players like EVH,SLASH,MAB,Mick Mars,Vito Bratta,The Schenker brothers,Matthias Jabs,Sambora,Diamond Darrell,Hendrix,Page,"Fingers" Ojeda and most of the rest are the best there have ever been.

Oh my god.

Technical skills aren't about opinions, musical skills are (even though they are more important). You are basing your argument only on opinions. And the list of guitarist you have there. Most of them aren't considered the most technical players, other than maybe MAB (that IMO is only technique ) and EVH (he was innovative but technically there are much better guitarists).

And the comment kind of reminded me of "Bring back the 80s! Today's music sucks!" comments. You can't play oldschool music today because it's outdated. I would rather listen to the old albums than new albums that repeat every cliche that was used in the 80s. New bands must have something new to offer and not just repeat what has already been done. And the taste of music is about opinions. In your opinion old bands were better but that's not a fact.

Oh and not Lordi, they are a Kiss copy that use playback lol.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:58 AM   #72
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Neither one is better, they are different.

Today we have guitarists like Guthrie Govan, Tosin Abasi, Steve vai, Joe satriani, Chris letchford, Greg Howe etc. They are all very good at what they do, and everyone agree that they are great guitarists.

In the past we had guitarists like Joe Pass, Wes montgomery, John Mclaughlin, Django Reinhardt, Jim Hall, Andres segovia and Julian bream. Also great guitarists, but different.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #73
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Technically, people are better now than in the past. That goes for pretty much every instrument.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:53 AM   #74
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Satch, Vai and Howe would be a part of the old school
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:10 PM   #75
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When is old school and when is new school?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:52 AM   #76
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IMO, The baseline is higher now, these kids playing with ultra high gain and working pinches of harmonics integrated into their chord progressions whilst alternating palm mutes and down strokes while shifting from 7/4 to 12/7 time; while modulating keys....they can play blues in their sleep. Blues was the baseline back in 1961, however, blues is a one trick pony imo, even with feeling.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
And I know people like Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix have good enough technique and they were also very innovative guitarists. They can play the music they want to play (though you can hear that they play a bit sloppily sometimes). .


I'm still a beginner. I know open chords, some barre chords, learning scales.

So I can't really participate in this discussion.

But I'm just interested in your quote. From what I've read, PAGE and HENDRIX both were considered great guitarists. I have their music on CD. And I've watched tons of video of their playing on YouTube. So what do you mean they were sloppy at times? How do you define sloppy? Where were they ever sloppy?

(When I've watched them playing, again on YouTube videos, I'm always in awe. Amazed. My mouth agape.)


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Old 03-14-2013, 10:31 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutle_me_this
I'm still a beginner. I know open chords, some barre chords, learning scales.

So I can't really participate in this discussion.

But I'm just interested in your quote. From what I've read, PAGE and HENDRIX both were considered great guitarists. I have their music on CD. And I've watched tons of video of their playing on YouTube. So what do you mean they were sloppy at times? How do you define sloppy? Where were they ever sloppy?

(When I've watched them playing, again on YouTube videos, I'm always in awe. Amazed. My mouth agape.)



Hendrix's sloppiness is hard because of his huge fuzz; but Page's sloppiness is apparent. Listen to Heartbreaker for example, it sounds inconsistent.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:52 AM   #79
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Hendrix's sloppiness is hard because of his huge fuzz; but Page's sloppiness is apparent. Listen to Heartbreaker for example, it sounds inconsistent.


I found this on YouTube of Hendrix playing acoustic. So there's no "huge fuzz" here:






Question: How is Page inconsistent on Heartbreaker? Again, I'm still learning, and I'm always interested in learning more. So I'm serious when I say enlighten me.

Thanks

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #80
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Don't worry rutle... haters gonna hate. If those two musicians make you happy, then by all means, learn from them. I personally don't find any sloppiness in their playing and they are both heroes to me. Along with Jeff Beck. Whether Page was goofed or not, it was always exciting to see his genius at work.

If you want clinical precision, then waste your time with MAB. Musically the guy will teach you nothing. But these two, you will learn more from them than most other players. I still learn from them too.
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