jrenkert

The number of songs I have written that I am proud of that were consciously thought out in terms of keys and scales and what not: 0

The number of songs that I've written that I were imagined because they felt right as they were composed: A gillion million billion

Music theory is great for EXPLAINING music and CAN help you in the writing process, but I'd just as soon as trust my ear...

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NegiTom

I think it's like most things that involve thinking; those who want to learn these things will, those who don't, won't. Playing guitar isn't a compulsory thing, and I can understand why you think everyone should have a moderate understanding of keys/scales etc, but for a lot of people, the thought of learning is both boring and intimidating. Nothing inside guitar is a necessity, and attaching necessity to something "fun" can drain the enjoyment out of it.
I would feel confident saying that, that accounts for about 89% of guitar owners. I do agree, however, that it would be beneficial to have a simple way of explaining and teaching the aforementioned cadences, keys and ways to properly structure songs is a good idea, and would be a benevolent act to the guitarists/musicians that embrace learning.

griffRG7321

But how do I baroque music in 2013 without keys?????

Not srs

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crazysam23_Atax

You make up a ghetto baroque and use chopsticks to baroque music!

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I am on break from recording until I buy a new computer in June. Look at the bandcamp page to see the track list for upcoming EP "Discarnate".



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

sweetdude3000

Like all art, It all comes down to aesthetics and audience. People are not going to listen to Chopin concertos when bumping it at da club.

I guess I am thinking along the lines of the extreme atonal works where there is absolutely no resolution, no motifs, excessive use of dissonance and tritone. Or any music with little craft to it. I love Sonic Youth's experimentation and how they create tension and resolution through borderline atonality and feedback. Or the use of tritone in some metal songs. Something like Blitzkrieg bop works because it's not just A D E chords, there is rhythm, tone guitars, message to convey, drums, bass, tone of Joey's voice.

Check out Scriabin Vers la Flamme or any other type of work that is borderline tonal. I like that. Or his Op. 74 which is octatonic based and has an interesting harmonic language that takes time to seep in.

crazysam23_Atax

^Will do. Thanks.

I think, for most of us anyway, the thing about atonal music is that we're naturally trained to find tonal music very pleasing. So, atonal music takes some listening training.

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I am on break from recording until I buy a new computer in June. Look at the bandcamp page to see the track list for upcoming EP "Discarnate".



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

Hail

better than legit chopin but that's not saying much

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griffRG7321

because composers have never used a particular scale, mode or pitch class as a means of generating basic material for a composition...

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crazysam23_Atax

Most serious composers haven't used scales/modes/pitch class as a basis of composition since the 1700s. Granted, I'm not saying all. But I'm fairly certain that the prevailing means of composition is writing in keys.

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I am on break from recording until I buy a new computer in June. Look at the bandcamp page to see the track list for upcoming EP "Discarnate".



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

griffRG7321

I was thinking more along the lines of 20th and 21st century composers...

For a guitar example... a number of Joe Satriani's pieces/songs arise from modal concepts.

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crazysam23_Atax

Ah, good example. But Satriani is the exception, not the rule. Also, his compositions are largely completely modal (as opposed to people using the modes tonally by using them as scales).

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I am on break from recording until I buy a new computer in June. Look at the bandcamp page to see the track list for upcoming EP "Discarnate".



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

jazz_rock_feel

This thread makes me uneasy. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something weird about it.

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An Afternoon with Stravinsky: Analysis and Observations of the Symphony of Psalms

I finally updated my SoundCloud with more recent pieces. Check it.

GuitarMunky

really? you're going to invent my point of view and then argue against your own fabrication?
It's hard to have a conversation with someone when they do that.

20Tigers

It's pretty common actually. Particularly, in the lesson titled "Harmonizing the Major Scale" or something similar.

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Si
Explaining Modes part 1
Explaining Modes part 2 (continued)

Nietsche

Everything that crazysam posts makes me uneasy, probably because he actually uses his own face as an avatar. I prefer my UG users to be unidentifiable except by an abstract picture or celebrity face so that I don't feel any human connection while I'm ripping into them.

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AlanHB

Admittedly I'm not completely familiar with Satrianis work, but nothing Ive heard of his is modal. Do you have any examples to shoot me down?

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And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.

Hail

his big thing was pitch axis theory but i think he does have a few drone songs, none off the top of my head because he's an incredibly boring player and composer to me

him and steve vai and all them feel so "fashion over substance" that i have trouble taking them seriously, but that's just how i've always interpreted that realm of guitars so flameshield->on

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Nietsche

Off the top of my head, the main theme of 'Lords of Karma' is based on the interchange between Lydian and Mixolydian modes. The underlying chord progression is Amaj#11 - A13. I'm not as solid (or at least, not as confident that I'm solid) on theory as most of the regulars here but this seems to be a pretty definite case of modal thinking being applied where similar results would be difficult to achieve with another method.





Satch's style is pretty different from Vai's. I mean, they both embody the '80's guitar hero' role to an extent, but Satch's playing, at least on Surfing with the Alien, was melodic and, at least to me, highly memorable.

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griffRG7321

Whether Satriani's work is modal or not isn't of any relevance, what matters is that modal concepts were part of his compositional process. Analyse the intro to 'Not of This Earth' as "E major with a #4 accidental then E minor then E major with a b7 accidental" and you're missing the point.

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