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Old 03-12-2013, 09:44 AM   #1
Klonoa87
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"playing a fifth away"

Title says it all. I've heard the concept before but not quite sure what it is. Help would be appreciated!
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #2
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I've never heard that. But in music, the fifth refers to the fifth degree or fifth note of the scale.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #3
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the only thing I can think of is for something like a harp player, but i think they play a 4th away, so if you are playing in the key of G, then they are playing in the key of C. I mean, reversely you're playing a 5th away from them....but i don't know if that's what you're getting at
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:17 AM   #4
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I never heard of that before
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:41 AM   #5
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It merely means to harmonize a melody with the fifth of it in the scale. Are you guys serious?
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonoa87
Title says it all. I've heard the concept before but not quite sure what it is. Help would be appreciated!

It means taking the riff you're playing and starting it from the 5th degree of the scale. (If your playing an A minor riff and you start on A, a 5th harmony would start on E). It's done a lot in metal to achieve a very dramatic sound especially during a melodic lead line though plenty of other styles us it too. The 5th isn't the only one you can harmonize to, and each degree that you harmonize with creates a different "feel". 5th's create an "epic" feel while minor 3rd harmonies create a "sadder" sound.
This is how it sounds, usually you need 2 guitarists unless you have a backing track, or a loop affect or in this case, a pedal with a harmonizing function.
Disclaimer: This is NOT the best example of it being used but it's just to get the idea across. It's not meant to sound like a master guitar, it's just a demo. Just like the description on the video says, Metallica uses it a lot and in particular on their Master of Puppets song.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #7
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No, it's not about harmonizing melodies. I know this concept is grounded in blues playing..
I'm trying to remember whatever I can, it was explained to me about a year ago. I could be completely off base but I thought it went something like this...over a progression in G maj you would play a lead in g mixolydian. That could be very wrong though. So far Gerraguitar has come the closest, that relationship he noted, (g being a 5th away from c and inversely c being a fourth away from g), hope we can figure it out....
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Klonoa87
I'm trying to remember whatever I can, it was explained to me about a year ago.

By who?
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:45 AM   #9
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^a guitar teacher. I'd love to ask him but I've since moved and lost his contact info
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:32 PM   #10
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You mean "out" playing, where you play a familiar pattern over a different root?

If that's what you mean, then playing a 5th away is the same as playing in the lydian mode of your home key. If you're in G and you play a 5th up, you're playing the same notes as D major, which converts to G lydian when you put it in the relevant key.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:11 PM   #11
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http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...tar_heroes.html

First topic of that lesson, is that what you're on about?
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #12
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I don't know man, i think you might be confusing yourself, you're confusing me at least. I don't know if you understand what you're actually asking, if you're actually asking a question that needs an answer or if youre just asking about a musical aesthetic. If you're not talking about a harmony then perhaps you're thinking of a way of playing over something? The whole "Sweet Home Alabama" thing when he solos in G but the song is kinda in D but its ok because it's modal....
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerraguitar
The whole "Sweet Home Alabama" thing when he solos in G but the song is kinda in D but its ok because it's modal....


Take it back and you won't be burt.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #14
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Take it back and you won't be burt.

Too late. I already broke his knee caps.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
... you're playing the same notes as D major, which converts to G lydian when you put it in the relevant key.

No, you are playing in D major. It's not G lydian, it's D major, and the relevant key is D major because you are playing in D major, more than likely because the tonal centre changed, and you are no longer in the key of G.

See how simple the key system is? Why make everything more complicated than it needs to be?
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:04 PM   #16
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It's in G. It's just a V IV I, jesus christ.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
It's in G. It's just a V IV I, jesus christ.


To be fair even the band could not agree on what key it was in.

But the main point is that the harmonic context does not magically change because you used a certain pattern of notes.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klonoa87
Title says it all. I've heard the concept before but not quite sure what it is. Help would be appreciated!


Whatever you just did or do in X take that same thing and move a 5th down the scale.

In C take that and move to G

In E take it to B and start there, etc.

Whatever "key" you are in, determine the 5th note/degree of that, and move it to that note and do the same thing starting from that note.

Best,

Sean
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
It's in G. It's just a V IV I, jesus christ.

To me it sounds more like D. I-bVII-IV. I don't know, it just feels like it resolves to D more than G. I would end the song with a D chord. That's just me.

But if you needed to do a one note bassline over the song, would you play D or G? IMO D would sound better.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:56 AM   #20
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The only thing D has going for it is being the first chord in the progression, which is rarely definitive of key. It spends twice as much time on G as the other chords, the harmony resolves to G, and every melody in song first perfectly into G, including the guitar solos. It's pretty hard to say that it feels like it resolves to D when it never actually does.
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