Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 03-12-2013, 04:40 PM   #1
antisun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
any danger in frequent truss rod adjustments?

So i set my guitar up for C standard, decided to tune it up to E std today and obviously had to tighten the truss rod, if i put it back in C, i will of course, loosen it back, and i have a habit of changing up tunings. Any harm in this?
antisun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 04:48 PM   #2
eddiehimself
Call me EH, eh?
 
eddiehimself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Slowly changing my identity, one day at a time
I don't think it's a great idea to have the wood flexing all the time like that. Plus there are possible issues with the adjustment nut if you're constantly adjusting it. I think really, you're just better off getting another guitar if you want to do this a lot. You're going to save yourself a lot of time in the long run.
__________________
EH

"Show me war; show me pestilence; show me the blood-red hands of retribution..."
eddiehimself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 04:54 PM   #3
randywolf244
resident arrogant
 
randywolf244's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: sorry i wasnt listening
Yes, it is bad for the neck really bad actually. That'll make it bow real quick
randywolf244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #4
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
I don't see how it could do any serious damage. When you dive bomb and pull up on a guitar with a floyd rose, you are adding and releasing many pounds of pressure on and off the neck very rapidly. And yet guitars with floyds don't seem to have a problem with it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 05:23 PM   #5
antisun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
I don't see how it could do any serious damage. When you dive bomb and pull up on a guitar with a floyd rose, you are adding and releasing many pounds of pressure on and off the neck very rapidly. And yet guitars with floyds don't seem to have a problem with it.


that was my thinking, i mean, its not like i'm really leaving the change in tension there, as soon as i tune up/down just give it a turn and thats that. i keep the same amount of relief regardless of the tuning.

The neck on my guitar also seems pretty stiff, i'm using 13-62 gauge strings and the truss rod isn't even completely tightened in order to get the correct amount of relief. tuning it it up from C, the relief only changed very slightly and a 1/4 turn is all it took to get it back where it was.

Last edited by antisun : 03-12-2013 at 05:26 PM.
antisun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 05:25 PM   #6
eddiehimself
Call me EH, eh?
 
eddiehimself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Slowly changing my identity, one day at a time
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
I don't see how it could do any serious damage. When you dive bomb and pull up on a guitar with a floyd rose, you are adding and releasing many pounds of pressure on and off the neck very rapidly. And yet guitars with floyds don't seem to have a problem with it.


That's only for a very short amount of time though. When you're adjusting the truss rod, the stresses are for a longer time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antisun
that was my thinking, i mean, its not like i'm really leaving the change in tension there, as soon as i tune up/down just give it a turn and thats that. i keep the same amount of relief regardless of the tuning.


You're not keeping the same amount of relief between the point that you change the tuning and adjust the truss rod, though.
__________________
EH

"Show me war; show me pestilence; show me the blood-red hands of retribution..."
eddiehimself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #7
Dimarzio45
Chookie's Cookie
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Dude, just adjust the bridge for whatever tuning you're in. Constant adjustments on the truss rod will stress the hell out of the neck. Buy another guitar and set that up for whatever other tuning you want to play in...
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 05:37 PM   #8
randywolf244
resident arrogant
 
randywolf244's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: sorry i wasnt listening
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehimself
That's only for a very short amount of time though. When you're adjusting the truss rod, the stresses are for a longer time.



You're not keeping the same amount of relief between the point that you change the tuning and adjust the truss rod, though.


Speaking from someone who has worked in / ran a shop for 10 years. He's right man its really bad for the neck
randywolf244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:15 PM   #9
MegadethFan18
Judge Shredd
 
MegadethFan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Like I died and went to heaven but they realised it wasn't my time so they sent me to a brewery
Everyone will tell you something different. personally I'd say no. I was looking on the back of a packet of strings and it claims there is about 6kg/(~13lbs) of tension in every string. You should be safe.

I loosened the truss rod on one of my guitars so much that the first 5 frets were totally dead (e.g way too loose). Then I got a new guitar and didn't touch then previously mentioned guitar for about 5 months. When I finally got back to adjusting it there were no ill effects.
MegadethFan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:37 PM   #10
Dimarzio45
Chookie's Cookie
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegadethFan18
Everyone will tell you something different. personally I'd say no. I was looking on the back of a packet of strings and it claims there is about 6kg/(~13lbs) of tension in every string. You should be safe.

I loosened the truss rod on one of my guitars so much that the first 5 frets were totally dead (e.g way too loose). Then I got a new guitar and didn't touch then previously mentioned guitar for about 5 months. When I finally got back to adjusting it there were no ill effects.


You don't understand what a truss rod does if you say "No, consistent truss rod adjustments won't harm the neck." String tension has NOTHING to with the purpose of the truss rod.
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:42 PM   #11
Tempoe
. . . ∆ . . .
 
Tempoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On an Island
I have to do small adjustments often due to huge humidity changes, only about 1/8 turn does it, but I've probably done it 30 times or more on my Prestige, no issues with the neck really. Pretty surprised the that those humidity changes wouldn't have done it some harm, but frets aren't sticking out or anything, still plays like new.
Tempoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:46 PM   #12
MegadethFan18
Judge Shredd
 
MegadethFan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Like I died and went to heaven but they realised it wasn't my time so they sent me to a brewery
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
" String tension has NOTHING to with the purpose of the truss rod.


U wot m8?

The truss rod is there to counteract the tension from the strings.

You don't understand Sir. But thanks to me now you do.
MegadethFan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:01 PM   #13
Dimarzio45
Chookie's Cookie
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegadethFan18
U wot m8?

The truss rod is there to counteract the tension from the strings.

You don't understand Sir. But thanks to me now you do.


Yeah...bending a piece of wood back and forth doesn't hurt its strength at all (Sarcasm)....
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #14
Dimarzio45
Chookie's Cookie
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
In short, antisun, any experienced guitar tech will tell you that adjusting the truss rod is a last resort effort towards improving the action. If you want to make adjustments, look at the bridge setup first.

The best way to solve this issue without having to constantly make adjustments every time you change tuning, is to get a guitar specific for that tuning. Namely, the lower tuning since most guitars are, by default, setup to be tuned in E.

Years ago, I destroyed a guitar due to multiple BACK AND FORTH adjustments. Even if they were small adjustments, the damage was irreversible in the end.

It's one thing if you want to make a small change and NOT mess with it. But, before you do that, make adjustments with the bridge height. You may have to adjust the saddles to readjust the intonation, too.

Plus, constant tweaking back and forth with wood will cause the wood grain to loosen which will effect sound. It may be a small effect but, nevertheless, everything counts.

But, hey, it's your guitar. Do what you want. You're the one who asked. Would I do it? Absolutely not. Only until I've exhausted my efforts with the bridge solution will I begin to think about adjusting the truss rod. Doing it constantly for a change in tunings is just OVERKILL on the neck's strength. Maybe you should find an in-between setting. But, then you wouldn't fully win with either tuning.

Last edited by Dimarzio45 : 03-12-2013 at 08:26 PM.
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 01:16 AM   #15
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
In short, antisun, any experienced guitar tech will tell you that adjusting the truss rod is a last resort effort towards improving the action. If you want to make adjustments, look at the bridge setup first.

Action is a combination of neck relief, nut slot height, and bridge height. I don't understand how you can say to adjust the action only using the bridge, when the first step in setting up a guitar is to set the neck relief. If the neck relief is off, then adjusting the bridge to compensate is a wrong.

I'm not saying he should only use his truss rod to adjust his action....I am saying that the neck relief should be set before adjusting the bridge, otherwise the ideal setup will not be achieved.

And I'm also not saying he should do it frequently. It's hard to imagine small truss rod adjustments damaging a well made guitar, but I'm not particularly familiar with what will happen, so I'll advise against it as a precautionary measure.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 12:23 PM   #16
Dimarzio45
Chookie's Cookie
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Action is a combination of neck relief, nut slot height, and bridge height. I don't understand how you can say to adjust the action only using the bridge, when the first step in setting up a guitar is to set the neck relief. If the neck relief is off, then adjusting the bridge to compensate is a wrong.

I'm not saying he should only use his truss rod to adjust his action....I am saying that the neck relief should be set before adjusting the bridge, otherwise the ideal setup will not be achieved.

And I'm also not saying he should do it frequently. It's hard to imagine small truss rod adjustments damaging a well made guitar, but I'm not particularly familiar with what will happen, so I'll advise against it as a precautionary measure.


I see exactly what you're saying, W4RP1G. I was more referring to a guitar that has already been setup properly from the factory. That, and the assumption that the guitar is not a cheapy and a complete waste of time to begin with lol. I really think that, in general, this is the kind of issue that can only be accurately diagnosed by seeing the guitar in person. Because, your solution, and mine, are both accurate but, more guitar-specific.

Let's also remember, he's talking about adjusting the truss rod every time he changes tunings. If you're like me, I change back and forth between tunings practically every other day. That would be hell on a neck (and body if we're talking acoustics- don't want that belly bubble lol).

I definitely don't disagree with you though. Like I said, It's a guitar specific situation. Could be the truss rod, the nut, the bridge or a little of all of the above....assuming it was poorly setup from the factory. In that case, you get what you pay for....as much as I hate that saying sometimes...lol

Last edited by Dimarzio45 : 03-13-2013 at 12:26 PM.
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 12:26 PM   #17
Tempoe
. . . ∆ . . .
 
Tempoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On an Island
Set up from the factory means nothing if it was made somewhere else. Humidity and temp changes effect the relief more than anything

A guitar setup in the factory, with perfect temp and humidity, shipped to Canada in winter (dry) would need a different adj than one sent to me in the tropics (humid as hell). Both would need an adj for sure though.

Last edited by Tempoe : 03-13-2013 at 12:31 PM.
Tempoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 12:30 PM   #18
Bigbazz
Registered User
 
Bigbazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
I think the obvious answer here is that if you keep on using the trussrod in this manner you have a good chance of damaging your guitar, it's all wear and tear and essencially you're accelerating the process.

If you're changing tunings on a regular basis then I would not bother changing the truss rod, it isn't going to make some massive difference, ideally you want another guitar. I have 2 of my guitars setup for Drop C tuning, 2 setup for Standard tuning and they stay that way, for good reason!
__________________
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
Marshall 1960A
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
Fender Stratocaster x3 (2 of them built from bits and pieces!)
Bigbazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 12:24 AM   #19
MESAexplorer
Spider Pig
 
MESAexplorer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
I wouldn't adjust it every time you change tuning but every time you change strings or if you plan on leaving it in a tuning for a couple weeks you should be good. If you're going to be doing this often make very small adjustments or try and find a happy medium between both adjustments.

Be careful not to strip the allen wrenches or the adjusting nuts.
__________________
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
MESAexplorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 06:29 AM   #20
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Yes. Danger of compromising the neck and of stripping the truss rod is present.
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.