Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Gear & Accessories
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 03-18-2013, 05:43 PM   #1
Artemis Entreri
Panned
 
Artemis Entreri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Help me retube my DRRI

Hey guys, I so rarely post here anymore but I'm in need of some opinions. I primarily play a fender 65 DRRI that I've been modding throughout the years. Right now it has new caps and a bright switch and some other blah blah but that's not too important. My tubes have been on their way out for a while and I think they're finally done. I'm not going to use a V1 since I never use the regular channel and want to put the money into other tubes. I also don't care about the v5 since I never use the vibrato; I'm probably just going to use the least dead of the old ones.

I care most about the v2, v3 and v4 since they're going to be used constantly though I've been told the phase inverter is important too. I imagine I should also get a new rectifier tube?

I'm not much of an amp nerd, I'm much more into recording so if some of you guys could share your opinions that would be great.

It's the platform for my session work and gigging so it needs to have decent headroom but also be able to break up if I drive it with buckers. Obviously I want a smooth, musical tone that doesn't necessarily need to be vintagey since it has a cannabis rex in it anyway.

I want to spend ~$150USD. Not enough to go NOS or anything but it should be enough to get some quality.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712

Last edited by Artemis Entreri : 03-18-2013 at 05:45 PM.
Artemis Entreri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 07:16 PM   #2
311ZOSOVHJH
G G & A - B A B Y
 
311ZOSOVHJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Offline
Hey...good to see you again

I came in expecting this to be about power tubes. It sounds like you are a pretty serious musician and care a lot about your tone. If that is the case then I suggest you buy good tubes. Not only that, but I suggest you buy spares and you get NOS when you can. I can't speak to your V1 situation or your Vibrato, but if the signal passes through a bad tube it could negatively affect your tone whether you think you are using that tube or not.

Now, that said. I'm confused. Did you just say you have $150 for 3 preamp tubes?



I'm kidding around a bit. But - you may have money for something decent. Not knowing much about the DRRI I'm going to throw this out. Get a Tung Sol, a JJ, a JAN Phillips 5751 and maybe one or two others. Just experiment by swapping these around until you get a combination you like (tube rolling).

I really suggest just getting those 3 and then using the extra money for spare power tubes or maybe start shopping for some good NOS tubes. RCA, Telefunken, Siemens, Phillips, Amperex, etc.

If you are really not sure then at least get a second JAN Phillips 5751. You can't have enough of those.

Also get some Dioxit Contact Cleaner. Spay some on the tube pins and work the tube in and out a bit. Lubricate your sockets.
__________________

Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH : 03-18-2013 at 07:17 PM.
311ZOSOVHJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 07:24 PM   #3
Robbgnarly
Registered User
 
Robbgnarly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NSB, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by 311ZOSOVHJH
Hey...good to see you again

I came in expecting this to be about power tubes. It sounds like you are a pretty serious musician and care a lot about your tone. If that is the case then I suggest you buy good tubes. Not only that, but I suggest you buy spares and you get NOS when you can. I can't speak to your V1 situation or your Vibrato, but if the signal passes through a bad tube it could negatively affect your tone whether you think you are using that tube or not.

Now, that said. I'm confused. Did you just say you have $150 for 3 preamp tubes?



I'm kidding around a bit. But - you may have money for something decent. Not knowing much about the DRRI I'm going to throw this out. Get a Tung Sol, a JJ, a JAN Phillips 5751 and maybe one or two others. Just experiment by swapping these around until you get a combination you like (tube rolling).

I really suggest just getting those 3 and then using the extra money for spare power tubes or maybe start shopping for some good NOS tubes. RCA, Telefunken, Siemens, Phillips, Amperex, etc.

If you are really not sure then at least get a second JAN Phillips 5751. You can't have enough of those.

Also get some Dioxit Contact Cleaner. Spay some on the tube pins and work the tube in and out a bit. Lubricate your sockets.

+1
great advice.
www.kcanostubes.com
www.tubedepot.com
www.dougstubes.com
www.thetubestore.com
www.nostubesupply.com

all are good reliable sites to order from
__________________
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Robbgnarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 10:38 PM   #4
Artemis Entreri
Panned
 
Artemis Entreri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
I think you guys missed the point of my post. I can't afford NOS, or high quality tubes. Especially for an amp which is just my live/session amp when I'm primarily an acoustic player. I do care about tone but I also know you can get good enough, even just plain great tone without dropping the money on high end equipment. I just want tubes which are better than the stock/mis matched set I got last year.

But like you guys said, there are a ton of options and I don't have the money to experiment so I was wondering if anyone has/had a DRRI and knows specific ones which sound good. For example, a couple of different groups sell "deluxe reverb sets" which are apparently matched to sound good for the specific amp. I don't know how much I believe that but there's a little truth in everything.

That being said, I probably will go ahead and order two different ax7s and two different at7s and swap them to find the better combination. I also need power tubes and the tungsol 6v6s tend to get a good rep so I'll probably start there.

At the very least I need 2 12ax7s or equivalent, 2 12at7s or equivalent and two 6v6s. For $150 you CAN get this. I know you CAN also get 1 tube. But that wouldn't do me much good when I need 6 The signal would pass through 5 other multiphonic and dying ones.

So if anyone has a DRRI, I'd like to hear about it. Otherwise I'll take 311ZOSOVHJH's advice and just order a few differnet ones.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
Artemis Entreri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2013, 10:44 PM   #5
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 07:16 AM   #6
gerraguitar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston
^what he said
__________________
Fender Strat Deluxe
Fender MexiStrat
Epiphone Sheritan
Ibanez Artcore
Fender Twin Reverb silverface
Roland JC120
Pedals

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAmerican
I would recommend the marshal MG100

Very versatile and quality sound. It should treat you well
gerraguitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 07:22 AM   #7
Robbgnarly
Registered User
 
Robbgnarly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NSB, FL
Are you in the USA, then www.eurotubes.com they have complete sets or you can order seprates. All they carry is JJ's which are a good tube but fairly in-expensive
__________________
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Robbgnarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 07:51 AM   #8
cdr_salamander
or simply Nick
 
cdr_salamander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Plano, TX
JJs all day long in Fender amps. Can't go wrong.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning~Kruger
Yes I was rude, and I was aggressive and I was offending a large group of people. But I was civlized about it.

'10 Gibson Firebird V
Marshall SL5
cdr_salamander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #9
zl1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
I like JJ's, but you may find them to be a little too dark in the DRRI. Someone else mentioned grabbing a few different tubes and swapping them around, that's probably gonna be your best bet. Definitely look into grabbing one of the Tung Sol RI 12ax7's, I think that would be a really good fit for v2 in the DRRI.

You mentioned grabbing some power tubes as well, I highly recommend looking into JJ 6v6's.
zl1288 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 08:31 AM   #10
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Everyone should have at least one JAN Philips 5751. Great tube for a good price. 35$ may seem expensive, but these are American manufactured tubes designed for military applications (JAN = Joint Army Navy) and thus are extremely sturdy. I'd be surprised if you didn't get at least 10 years out of one, if not more.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 11:28 AM   #11
311ZOSOVHJH
G G & A - B A B Y
 
311ZOSOVHJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Entreri
I think you guys missed the point of my post. I can't afford NOS, or high quality tubes.

You said you had $150 for new tubes and only mentioned V2, V3, and V4 in your OP so I didn't know you needed power tubes too. There are 9 tubes in there total right?

Eitherway - if you want to go the 'kit' route that's fine - but I believe some of that is snakeoil. Eurotubes sells kits for the DRRI but guess what? They are all JJs. JJs are good tubes for the money and I recommend them ALL the frickin time but they are not always the answer.

Here is another question. You mentioned it has had the capacitors replaced? Why? This is a reissue no? Why would it need new caps -or- should I say, how old is the amp? And I am assuming you have been paying someone to mod the amp as well? What is it that you want to change out the amp? If you said it is too bright - then I could understand putting all JJs in the preamp. If you said you wanted to brighten the amp up a bit so it had more dynamics then JJs may not be the way to go (and I find JJs to be very dynamic BTW).

I would send emails to those firms that Rob linked in. I personally like dougstubes and thevalvequeen.com but tubedepot is highly regarded as well.
__________________

Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH : 03-19-2013 at 11:56 AM.
311ZOSOVHJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #12
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by zl1288
I like JJ's, but you may find them to be a little too dark in the DRRI. Someone else mentioned grabbing a few different tubes and swapping them around, that's probably gonna be your best bet. Definitely look into grabbing one of the Tung Sol RI 12ax7's, I think that would be a really good fit for v2 in the DRRI.

You mentioned grabbing some power tubes as well, I highly recommend looking into JJ 6v6's.
I would have said that JJ's tame the top end. Why would you want to brighten up a DRRI?
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM   #13
Artemis Entreri
Panned
 
Artemis Entreri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 311ZOSOVHJH
You said you had $150 for new tubes and only mentioned V2, V3, and V4 in your OP so I didn't know you needed power tubes too. There are 9 tubes in there total right?

Eitherway - if you want to go the 'kit' route that's fine - but I believe some of that is snakeoil. Eurotubes sells kits for the DRRI but guess what? They are all JJs. JJs are good tubes for the money and I recommend them ALL the frickin time but they are not always the answer.

Here is another question. You mentioned it has had the capacitors replaced? Why? This is a reissue no? Why would it need new caps -or- should I say, how old is the amp? And I am assuming you have been paying someone to mod the amp as well? What is it that you want to change out the amp? If you said it is too bright - then I could understand putting all JJs in the preamp. If you said you wanted to brighten the amp up a bit so it had more dynamics then JJs may not be the way to go (and I find JJs to be very dynamic BTW).

I would send emails to those firms that Rob linked in. I personally like dougstubes and thevalvequeen.com but tubedepot is highly regarded as well.



Whoops sorry! I guess that was the implication my post made, my fault. I'd rather not go the kit route, though that's always an option.

For the caps, I actually bought the amp from a friend who upgraded to a real blackface. Before he did so, he had the caps replaced to "65 spec" or something and did some other things to make it "more like the original." I switched the speaker out and put the bright switch in it. The amp is an 06, anyway.

I wouldn't say it's too bright but the brightness is harsh. I'd rather have smooth, creamy breakup than the kind of ice pick it gets right now. The speaker helped a TON and I barely notice the harshness anymore but it's still a little harsh with bridge pup stratocasters and telecasters.


5751s are pretty low gain though, right? I do need a little bit of headroom so I think I still need an ax7 in the primary preamp spot.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
Artemis Entreri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #14
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Entreri
Whoops sorry! I guess that was the implication my post made, my fault. I'd rather not go the kit route, though that's always an option.

For the caps, I actually bought the amp from a friend who upgraded to a real blackface. Before he did so, he had the caps replaced to "65 spec" or something and did some other things to make it "more like the original." I switched the speaker out and put the bright switch in it. The amp is an 06, anyway.

I wouldn't say it's too bright but the brightness is harsh. I'd rather have smooth, creamy breakup than the kind of ice pick it gets right now. The speaker helped a TON and I barely notice the harshness anymore but it's still a little harsh with bridge pup stratocasters and telecasters.


5751s are pretty low gain though, right? I do need a little bit of headroom so I think I still need an ax7 in the primary preamp spot.
JJ's are what you want. Throwing a couple of NOS tubes can't hurt but going by what you are saying I'd base it on JJ's and then experiment with NOS tubes as you find them.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:13 PM   #15
Artemis Entreri
Panned
 
Artemis Entreri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
JJ's are what you want. Throwing a couple of NOS tubes can't hurt but going by what you are saying I'd base it on JJ's and then experiment with NOS tubes as you find them.



Wow they're pretty cheap. Is that right, 10 dollars per preamp tube? At that rate I could retube my entire amp with JJs AND get a couple of nicer ones.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
Artemis Entreri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:14 PM   #16
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Yep, that's the plan I am suggesting to you. Just retube it with JJ's and then spend some time trying to chase down a few special NOS ones over time.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:30 PM   #17
zl1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
I would have said that JJ's tame the top end. Why would you want to brighten up a DRRI?


I don't personally find the DRRI overly bright And to clarify; I wasn't trying to say that ts should avoid JJ's altogether, just that I wouldn't recommend them at every position in the DRRI.
zl1288 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #18
311ZOSOVHJH
G G & A - B A B Y
 
311ZOSOVHJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Entreri
Whoops sorry! I guess that was the implication my post made, my fault. I'd rather not go the kit route, though that's always an option.

For the caps, I actually bought the amp from a friend who upgraded to a real blackface. Before he did so, he had the caps replaced to "65 spec" or something and did some other things to make it "more like the original." I switched the speaker out and put the bright switch in it. The amp is an 06, anyway.

I wouldn't say it's too bright but the brightness is harsh. I'd rather have smooth, creamy breakup than the kind of ice pick it gets right now. The speaker helped a TON and I barely notice the harshness anymore but it's still a little harsh with bridge pup stratocasters and telecasters.


5751s are pretty low gain though, right? I do need a little bit of headroom so I think I still need an ax7 in the primary preamp spot.

Good post. Thanks for the added information. I guess I should be clear as well that I'm not an amp tech and I've never played a DRRI so I may not be the best guy to talk to.

I respect Cathbard a lot and like I said above - I recommend JJs all the time because they are cheap, fairly well made and have a darker/smoother tone than say a Tung Sol or others.

My point about the caps was that it sounds like you are serious about your tone and don't mind getting the best. $150 for tubes is a decent budget. If you gig - you need spares anyway and preamp tubes can have a significant affect on tone.

Strats and Teles can be bright guitars anyway.

The 5751 are not 'low gain'. They are about 90% of the gain of 12AX7 so I still think you should get one and try it. If by headroom you mean less distortion than a 12AT7 or 5751 might be right up your alley. I'd get a JJ 12AX7, JJ 12AT7 and a 5751 for your PI position and/or swap them around like I said.
__________________
311ZOSOVHJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 01:26 PM   #19
Artemis Entreri
Panned
 
Artemis Entreri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 311ZOSOVHJH
Good post. Thanks for the added information. I guess I should be clear as well that I'm not an amp tech and I've never played a DRRI so I may not be the best guy to talk to.

I respect Cathbard a lot and like I said above - I recommend JJs all the time because they are cheap, fairly well made and have a darker/smoother tone than say a Tung Sol or others.

My point about the caps was that it sounds like you are serious about your tone and don't mind getting the best. $150 for tubes is a decent budget. If you gig - you need spares anyway and preamp tubes can have a significant affect on tone.

Strats and Teles can be bright guitars anyway.

The 5751 are not 'low gain'. They are about 90% of the gain of 12AX7 so I still think you should get one and try it. If by headroom you mean less distortion than a 12AT7 or 5751 might be right up your alley. I'd get a JJ 12AX7, JJ 12AT7 and a 5751 for your PI position and/or swap them around like I said.


Thanks for all the help guys! I don't necessarily mean less distortion, though that wouldn't be a problem since I have a couple of boosters anyway. I just mean that with my PRS when I turn my deluxe above 3 it's breaking up.

Right now I have a cart with JJ 6v6s, 2 JJ 12ax7 ECC83s, a JJ GZ34 rectifier tube, 2 JJ 12at7 ECC81s and a JAN 5751. 130 + shipping.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Virginia Guitar Festival

Protools HD
Lynx Aurora 16/HD192
Mojave, Sennheiser, AKG, EV etc mics
Focusrite ISA828 pres
Waves Mercury
Random Rack Gear

65 Deluxe Reverb
PRS CE 22
American Standard Strat
Taylor 712
Artemis Entreri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #20
311ZOSOVHJH
G G & A - B A B Y
 
311ZOSOVHJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Offline
^ looks like a winning package


get some Dioxit contact cleaner too (Radio Shack etc) and spray a little on the tube pins while you are at it. This is more for the sockets not the tubes so you don't need to spray all the tubes. Never pray it directly into the socket.
__________________
311ZOSOVHJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.