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Old 03-27-2013, 04:27 AM   #21
snipelfritz
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:33 AM   #22
SlackerBabbath
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An afterlife is considered as the continuation of our conciousness after death has occured, but research suggests that conciousness is 'generated' by a living brain. When the brain dies, conciousness ends, kinda like the way that a lightbulb stops emitting light when the electrical current to it is turned off or removed.

If conciousness is generated by a living brain, as the research suggests, then we could reasonably conclude that it is impossible for an afterlife to exist.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
Hooray, somebody religious on this site who accepts that it can't be proved or disproved!


Anyway, my view was pretty simple - I don't personally believe, or expect, there to be a conscious afterlife and I imagine it to be similar to the stages of sleep where you aren't dreaming/conscious, and instead time passes by at a relatively infinite speed you can't be aware of (like when you awake and can't believe several hours have gone by because you were napping, and didn't have a conscious dream, so it feels like you've opened your eyes and hours have passed).

But, after reading the latest issue of New Science there was a few scientists in there who claim that, to some extent, people do appear to live on for a certain time after they are medically dead - not claiming they live on infinitely or in a form of afterlife, but - where people have had their heart stopped and are in a state where their brain shows no functional activity, have been brought back on the operating table and described an experience of what was happening during the time they should have been completely unconscious and incapable of having any thoughts or dreams.

Doesn't prove anything, and they're currently trying to test these ideas (as well as testing out of body experiences by putting things on high shelves in the operating theatre and asking patients if they saw anything, though this doesn't appear to have had any valid results in favour of that idea, and I'm not sure I could believe something like that without irrefutable proof) but it's an interesting concept... would normally dismiss it as inane rubbish, but a few medical experts seemed to be considering or at least humouring the posibility and it could be a world-changing concept if they can prove human's have a conscious experience for a few hours after death until the brain decays beyond a certain point, for example. At the very least, I guess you could explain it as something people imagine has happened when they regain consciousness as their brain tries to explain what happened and why they feel terrible and as though they've been hit by a bus


That's interesting.. On the idea of your brain imagining what happened during the time it was brain-dead, as it regains consciousness, what if your perception of time just slows down to infinity as you die, and you just experience this dream of a different life in that final perpetual moment of the current life? I haven't died yet, and when I do, I won't be able to tell you what happened, but you post an interesting idea.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:36 AM   #24
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Why would you even bother thinking about something that you can't possibly know anyway?
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:36 AM   #25
DisarmGoliath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
An afterlife is considered as the continuation of our conciousness after death has occured, but research suggests that conciousness is 'generated' by a living brain. When the brain dies, conciousness ends, kinda like the way that a lightbulb stops emitting light when the electrical current to it is turned off or removed.

If conciousness is generated by a living brain, as the research suggests, then we could reasonably conclude that it is impossible for an afterlife to exist.

Hey Slacker, I genuinely think you'd be interested in it, so I'll see if it's online anywhere but like I mentioned in my wall-of-text above, there was some medical expert in the latest New Scientist talking about how people appear to be able to describe experiences taking place after they were pronounced medically dead and when their brain wasn't showing any real activity, when they were brought back on the operating table. Prior to reading that, and I accept that I was tired when reading it and the article could have been misleading, I was completely in agreement with your standpoint.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
An afterlife is considered as the continuation of our conciousness after death has occured, but research suggests that conciousness is 'generated' by a living brain. When the brain dies, conciousness ends, kinda like the way that a lightbulb stops emitting light when the electrical current to it is turned off or removed.

If conciousness is generated by a living brain, as the research suggests, then we could reasonably conclude that it is impossible for an afterlife to exist.


That's what perplexes me. It just seems paradoxical for an experiencing being to experience absolutely nothing. Even if it was darkness, you'd somehow be experiencing that, but you post a good point. It just baffles me as to what it must be like to truly experience "nothing."
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by the bartender
Why would you even bother thinking about something that you can't possibly know anyway?


I just can't help thinking about things I can never know
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:38 AM   #28
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:40 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by sfaune92
There's only one way to find out.


But how could you tell us what it's like?
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:40 AM   #30
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I think it comes down to whether or not you believe there is something beyond your mental consciousness.

As a Christian I believe there is an afterlife but I also don't think it's really worth trying to figure out.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:40 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
Hey Slacker, I genuinely think you'd be interested in it, so I'll see if it's online anywhere but like I mentioned in my wall-of-text above, there was some medical expert in the latest New Scientist talking about how people appear to be able to describe experiences taking place after they were pronounced medically dead and when their brain wasn't showing any real activity, when they were brought back on the operating table. Prior to reading that, and I accept that I was tired when reading it and the article could have been misleading, I was completely in agreement with your standpoint.

Would it be possible for them to have dreamt it? Can you dream under situations of great shock (like being at the point of death and being revived)
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:44 AM   #32
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That's why I'll never trust a bidet.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bartender
Why would you even bother thinking about something that you can't possibly know anyway?


How do you know that we can't possibly know if there's an afterlife.... and why would you even bother thinking about it if you can't can't possibly know that we can't possibly know that there's an afterlife.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
Hey Slacker, I genuinely think you'd be interested in it, so I'll see if it's online anywhere but like I mentioned in my wall-of-text above, there was some medical expert in the latest New Science talking about how people appear to be able to describe experiences taking place after they were pronounced medically dead and when their brain wasn't showing any real activity, when they were brought back on the operating table. Prior to reading that, and I accept that I was tired when reading it and the article could have been misleading, I was completely in agreement with your standpoint.

There's no possible way of showing that a person was remembering something from when they were medicaly dead, for all anyone knows, their memories of apparent experiences during a period of being medicaly dead could actualy be from just before they medicaly 'died' or even just after they were revived. After all, our sense of time tends to go out of the window when we're dreaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDo0m
That's what perplexes me. It just seems paradoxical for an experiencing being to experience absolutely nothing. Even if it was darkness, you'd somehow be experiencing that, but you post a good point. It just baffles me as to what it must be like to truly experience "nothing."

Try to think back to before you existed, that's what it's like to experience 'nothing'.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:45 AM   #34
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@MrDo0m: I know how you feel about the matter, and I think it stems from being somebody who likes knowledge of what to expect, or wanting some element of control instead of the fear of the unknown. I don't get as concerned now as I did when younger, so I'm guessing with age comes a willingness to accept what will be but I definitely do share this concern at there being a point in time where I may suddenly go from a conscious being, to having no awareness of the world and the rest of the future passing by in an infinite period of time.

At the end of the day though, it's just a mildly more intellectual form of worrying about the future instead of the present so I try not to be pre-occupied thinking about stuff like that now unless I genuinely don't have something more important to do
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devourke
Would it be possible for them to have dreamt it? Can you dream under situations of great shock (like being at the point of death and being revived)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
There's no possible way of showing that a person was remembering something from when they were medicaly dead, for all anyone knows, their memories of apparent experiences during a period of being medicaly dead could actualy be from just before they medicaly 'died' or even just after they were revived. After all, our sense of time tends to go out of the window when we're dreaming.

Yeah, this is where my skepticism stems from too because I also conclude that you can never know for certain whether they're dreaming the experience up or not (mentioned it somewhere in my huge post ) but I guess it was just an interesting concept to me after reading about it, and perhaps one day they'll have better ways of measuring the validity of these things


Quote:
Try to think back to before you existed, that's what it's like to experience 'nothing'.

Funnily enough, that's always what I used to use as my belief but then somebody said "but you weren't born at that point, how do you know not being born is the same as being dead?" so I decided that it was easier to argue with somebody stating a certainty of an afterlife by referring to when you are asleep and not in a conscious state of dreaming, instead. Same kind of concept though - that time passes and you have no awareness of that time or any events that take place as it passes
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:49 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by devourke
ever heard of a carpenter named Jesus? Ya know, sacrificed himself for our sins, then got resurrected 3 days later? Son of god? How do you explain that?


Life insurance scam.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by devourke
ever heard of a carpenter named Jesus? Ya know, sacrificed himself for our sins, then got resurrected 3 days later? Son of god? How do you explain that?


I could provide various different possibilities that rationaly explain the crucifixion and apparent resurrection of Jesus, but you already know that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:57 AM   #38
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yes. you will still be able to perceive the world, but in a different form
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:48 AM   #39
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Come on, it's not like we've never experienced a state of not-being-alive before. We were all dead for millennia before we were born. The most logical conclusion is that we will return to that state of complete non-existence and non-consciousness. Not very comforting or popular, but logical I'd say.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:06 AM   #40
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Someday there will be an afterlife, we just don't have the technology to make one yet.

I consider us all to be the Adam and Eves of the universe. From what little we know, the universe seems to be expanding, and we seem to be the only occupants within it at the moment. If that is all true, then I assume we will one day be deemed the biblical equivalents to the beginning of human kind and intelligent life. Think about it, we see Moses as ancient now, but that is only two or three thousand years. Imagine 50,000 years from now, how we will be viewed in the future by whoever exists at that time.

In 57,000 years (+/-) I can't even imagine the incredible technological capabilities that will exist but just like we dig up, are fascinated with, and contemplate cloning dinosaurs to know more about them, or worship our earliest ancestors as heroes, demigods, or even as gods as some religions do, I can certainly imagine future man, our ancestors, will want to know who we were, and bring us back if they are able, to study, to worship, to slap across the face, or to exist forever, like they do.

The id and ego of man will inevitably compel man to create an aferlife for itself, in some way, someday. Now that the idea is out there, there is no turning back.
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